Nice tips Flavius Gonzo. Thats pretty much how I've been playing it out. I *could* keep the Holy Lands but it would be as posted before, a long term investment. It would open up early trade with the Mediterranean sea, and a castle in the east would provide a base to project my power. Im starting to lean towards a slash and burn first crusade, for stats and profit only. I want to keep them, and I would make the investment, but not at the cost of slowing my massive building efforts going on in England.