Keeping the Holy Lands...

[Musashi]

Actually you don't need to exterminate anything, if you follow my method...

Pick one province to produce priests from on the FIRST turn of the game. And have it produce a priest basically every turn. Send them all to the holy land. B y the time they get there they will have gained some skill from travelling (And from taking out any heretics you see along the way of course). Plant one in Antioch, one in Acre, one in Jerusalem, one in Aleppo, etc.

Now by the time the first crusade is called they'll likely all be cardinals and the regions will all have 40-60% catholicism. Attach a spy to your crusade army and send them off.

You'll have no problems at all.

[Masy]

Speaking of Holy Lands...

On this day, November 27th 1095, at the Council of Clermont, Pope Urban II called for the First Crusade. I thought that was an interesting bit of info for you all out there...

[ScrapTower]

Great posts everyone. What about the economical end. Sure you can keep them, but how do you keep them without stunting the growth of your main lands?

[Musashi]

Great posts everyone. What about the economical end. Sure you can keep them, but how do you keep them without stunting the growth of your main lands?

It shouldn't hurt your economy much if you don't go overboard with the garrison... You really don't need an uber army there... Certainly not one in every territory you take there. Just use the crusade army to take the surrounding rebel castles and leave light militia garrisons and only keep one big army and use it to lift any siege the egyptians or turks try.

[ScrapTower]

After the crusade, your merc crusader knights start costing 300 per turn, and the spears arent much cheaper. The units you can train in the holy lands will be limited at first so you must keep them around for a few turns. Also Jihads will require a full, or close to a full stack to fend off. I play an aggressive opening. I own all of the British Isles and Caen by turn 12. (I think this is as fast as it can be done without cheating, please try to beat me, then tell me how you did it! ;P) Then I ask for a crusade way before the pope declares one. So far Ive had Jereusalem on turn 29 (thats pretty freekin fast), and I do it all without ever having to stop building due to lack of funds. So I guess the next suggestions I would enjoy reading would be how to keep them with as little investment as possible. :)

[Musashi]

Oh, I don't use crusader-merc heavy crusade armies... I prefer to send my own (Cheaper) units, since I'm only going to siege the crusade target out anyway (Why would I want to get my units chewed up on an assault when I can't easily build a new one in that location?)

I've never had a jihad declared against Antioch or Jerusalem after taking them... but they've always still been rebel provinces when I got there, so I didn't take them away from a muslim faction.

Even if I was defending against a Jihad however, I'd prefer to leave the cities lightly defended with militia and let the Jihad lay siege and then come in with a mobile army and crush them against the wall...

[Flavius Gonzo]

I can think of three options to keep the holy lands without to much of a cost:

1) Garrisonned Pilgrims. Again, only 90 upkeep and 35 to recruit. I think you have to recruit them back in catholic lands though before you launch to sea.

2) Diplomacy. A big problem with my Antioch crusade was the Byzantines to the north and a freak Moorish army dwelling inexplicably around the Cilician gates. After taking Antioch and Egyptian held Aleppo, I'm in an inescapable war with Egypt, but my real problem has been having to keep a large enough garrison in both Aleppo and Antioch so as not to entice the Moors or Byzantines to attack, as both are of Neutral-Very Poor status right now. If I have leave a small garrison in either city, one of them attacks seeing opportunity. (OK, I admitted, I cheated by reloading after ending a turn once, this is how I found out...)

If I would have made more of a diplomatic effort with each nation earlier and more often, I think I'd wouldn't have to worry as much about an attack from either. I can't even afford a war I can win with either country right now, they are both trading partners. I have a Diplomat on the way who will hopefully rectify this situation, as it is though, I have to keep up huge garrisons which are not cost effective...

3) MERCHANTS! Man, I wish I had thought to send these guys earlier, but my 2nd crusade is carrying a bunch with them. There are some really good trade goods in the area, and the distance to capital bonus is tangible in the holy lands. One assassin can probably protect several merchants and your surrounding generals, etc, and I believe this could QUICKLY turn the holy lands into a profitable investment.

[Zenicetus]

Actually you don't need to exterminate anything, if you follow my method...

Pick one province to produce priests from on the FIRST turn of the game. And have it produce a priest basically every turn. Send them all to the holy land. B y the time they get there they will have gained some skill from travelling (And from taking out any heretics you see along the way of course). Plant one in Antioch, one in Acre, one in Jerusalem, one in Aleppo, etc.

Now by the time the first crusade is called they'll likely all be cardinals and the regions will all have 40-60% catholicism. Attach a spy to your crusade army and send them off.

You'll have no problems at all.

That's good advice; it worked for me as Spain when finishing off the Moors. Just send priests as an advance guard, have 'em stand near the cities/castles. By the time your invading army gets there, it's a half Catholic province. It almost feels a little overpowered (ONE priest converts half the province? Must be an awfully charismatic guy!).

[alpaca]

My way to keep the holy land is not to actually keep it but to sack it. That way you can gain huge profits.
What I did in my VH/VH campaign with Venice was to capture Jerusalem, hold it for a few turns, then pull my men out and recruit a few mercs. Afterwards I marched onto Acre, meanwhile Jerusalem rebelled. I took Jerusalem again (sacking again, too - both times I got 17k), fended off a small Egyptian invasion force. By then my priests had it converted to 80% Catholicism so I was able to leave. So I called a crusade on Antioch and took Damascus and Antioch (Antioch sacked for 30k or so). Now I am fighting off the Egyptians and I found out that by now the Holy Land actually pays for itself with about 3k per turn (got two stacks there by now) and I'm able to easily defend against the Egyptians - the Seljuks are currently occupied with the Byzantines and I can keep one of the stacks in Antioch to keep the order until my priests converted that.

From this I conclude that it might be wisest to just sack settlements in the area until you converted it over to Catholicism. When that happened, you can hold the settlements. Each time you sack Jerusalem or Antioch will give you 15k-30k so it easily pays for itself and more. With Venice I was actually able to field a military force a lot stronger than any of my opponents' throughout most of the game so far.

[ScrapTower]

Yeah. If you are going to pay a full stack, make them earn it! I take the holy lands quite early so Im getting about half those numbers when I sack Jerusalem. I think if I sack the place multiple times it will pay my troops and buy me a bit of time to reinforce my economy.

[Musashi]

I should mention that I tend to play wealthy factions like France and Venice, so it may be a bit easier for me than for someone playing say, the HRE or England...