Can you explain - spearwall bonus?

[tootee]

Do you find that the spearwall bonus is too high?

Landsknecht pikemen at 350 florins with an attack 11 defence 4 men 75, just standing there without charging, facing the best swordmen like English armoured swordmen which cost 610 florins with an attack 13 defence 22 charge 3 men 60, can easily absorb their charge (losing average 10 to 15 men), and thereafter trash the swordmen.

The two units are attacking frontally.

I upgraded these swordmen to valour 2, and still unable to beat the Landsknecht pikemen..

Without forming spearwall, these pikemen fought with swords, they died at rate expected from their base stat.

[Kenchi_Sulla]

Simple: Yes they are to strong. They should receive the spearwall bonus vs cavalry but NOT vs armoured infantry. Cheap pikes are unbreakable from the front and still very flexible. It should be altered.

[UglyandHasty]

I agree. In a couple of games, i took 5-6 cheap pike militia, and even at valor 0, they hold their ground pretty good. Even versus late sword units.

[Kronos]

They're very similar to rtw phalanxes in that when charged head on only the best infantry can break them when stationary, however there's many ways to break the best spartan box for all the ppl wo r experts at rtw it's a peice of cake

But for anyone who only played MTW and/or STW u'll need to learn it.

[YellowMelon]

They are a bit decieving in the selection screen, and they seem more powerful than RTW. Units that can spearwall gain a huge stat increase both def and att...until we unpack the data we won't know how much and whether they are too cheap or not. But right now they look odd when a unit has 12/12 and plays significantly better than their abilities (despite their price being lofty).

[Kronos]

Yes they are a bit decieving in that regard, but only when stationary, so someone could move around them and attack especially as it takes them ages to reform. Alot of other units i've found a bit decieving as well tho, even tho they're cheaper and from the same era as another unit (such as varangians and fuedal knights) the varangians performed alot worse than they should of done.
Varangians being 20 15 with ap, and fuedal knights something like 11 21.
This however was just in 1 battle so i'd have to see in a unit vs unit comparison how they'd do.

[tootee]

Simple: Yes they are to strong. They should receive the spearwall bonus vs cavalry but NOT vs armoured infantry. Cheap pikes are unbreakable from the front and still very flexible. It should be altered.

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pike_%28weapon%29
, historically swordmen could hardly break a pike in formation frontally.


imo some pike units' cost need to be revised.. i mean, the cost of training these pikemen to fight effectively should be reasonably high?

i think the pikemen is realistic and ok; it is deadly vs other non-pike and cav when used right. they do fight quite bad once switched to sword or off spearwall.

i think the pike unit

• * should take longer time to form spear wall after running to a spot
  * cannot form spear wall once it get into melee with enemy?
  * should cost more for Landsknechts (and likes); they were german imitate of the Swiss, and yet cost almost the same as Flemings (who were urban militia? i assumed they received less training than professional soldiers?)

[Monarch]

Gut instinct no, because currently (although it seems to change every other day) on high my fave faction is france, so I'm loving those flemish pikeman

As I've played them quite a bit I will point out, unlike RTW's phalanxes they lack shields, I've found them extremely vulnerable to missiles.

However I agree they are alot better it seems than I expected.

[Kronos]

Ye Monarch that was one of the many rtw tactics that beat phalaxes, also a few more are concentrating on 1 point and breaking through which completely disrupts the entire line, also splitting ur inf and going around the side so they have to reform which takes them ages (plus the person needs good micro skills).

Also has ayone noticed how long the spearwall units take to get into a spearwall effectively? it's bloody ages and i've been caught off guard a few time when moving and getting rushed b4 i could refor them.

[][GERUDO][Mojoman]

yeah they are very similar to RTW phalanxes, but not half as powerful imo....
it takes on average at least 5 seconds for a pike phalanx to turn around while in formation, wheras in RTW, a sacred band unit could swivel around in under a second, while still in combat and destroy a unit of cavalry trying to rear charge them....