Artillery? How to get them to obey?

[Mahrabals apprentice]

In custom battles my artillery consistantly ignore my orders.

If I tell them to use explosive ammo they usually will, but not always. No matter how many times I try canceling the orders and re-issuing them they insist on using regular ammo.

Even more annoying is trying to get them to target a specific taget. In custom battles if you autoselect an army for the AI it usually (always?) selects 3 units of missile infantry and 3 artillery units. I want my cannon to target the big chunk of heavy infantry deployed between.
I usually start the game with fire at will on.
They taget the archers.
I want to mess up the melee infantry which are so packed together in a big juicy target so I select a target and the artillery continues to target the archers.
So I turn off fire at will and again click on one of the infantry units
either they refuse to fire at anything at all or they continue to fire, at the artillery

"either we fire at the archers my lord or we go on strike"

Can somebody please explain what I should do to get them to fire at the target I would like to.

[Musashi]

Wish I knew... It seems like they can't see the target because the archers in front are blocking their view, so they just shoot the archers.

[Shadow_Wolf33]

your general just needs a larger stick to command with

[Mahrabals apprentice]

your general just needs a larger stick to command with

You have a button to try to ralley fleeing cowards by blowing your horn, why not a button to walk over to a unit, disembowel one or two and give the rest a stern talking to.


"YOU WILL DO AS YOU ARE TOLD YOU STINKING PEASANTS OR I WILL HURT YOU. I MADE SURE I PACKED MY EXTRA POINTY BRAND AND MY CUSTOM BUILT FRENCHMAN FLAYER FOR THIS CAMPEIGN"

[Wizzie]

I'm having the same problem in my Venice campaign. I had two ballistas with my army invading Sicily, and fought several large battles with them. I had the ballistas on a hill in most battles, with my army deployed in front of them but lower down the hill. I found one of my ballistas obeyed my commands perfectly, but the other would only fire at specific units in the enemy army (usually the ones on the flanks for some reason). If I tried to tell it to fire at any other unit, the men would align the ballistas towards the target and then stand there doing nothing. Something I noticed that while they were stood there doing nothing, the little icon on their unit card denoted they were at "Firing" status.

[Cesare diBorja]

.........the AI. It takes out with what it can take you out with first and best. Then, from there, it works its way down the ladder, so to speak. Infantry, without missiles, is low priority and usually left to your infantry(non-missile) and cavalry. Missile battles usually happened first in Medieval warfare anyway(Agincourt, Crecy, the Crusades). The AI does very nicely; when the enemy had nothing but missile units, a few heavy infantry units, and a few artillery units, I watched my army not only engage with missiles but then, all my cavalry charged in and swept the field clean of them............in five minutes!

Too bad forthe Milanese

You need to give the game a chance..........

M2:TW may not be historically or geographically accurate, but their isn't much wrong with the AI. Tone down your archers and watch your butt get kicked. You'd be a bit put off, too, if you enemy showed up with all archers and artillery.
I play the French, my armies are heavy with cavalry.

6-10 cavalry
2-4 missile
1-3 artillery
3-4 infantry(non-missile)

pretty typical of the times.........

Get medieval-minded. Read some books on the times and then play..........or continue to play like a person out of our modern times. Our opinions(mostly) are based off of our current 'mind on war'. You will never get a 'Medieval' fight from an enemy by fighting them like "Schwartzkof".

diBorgia

[shifty157]

If theyre not firing at all that means that the angle is bad and that they cant hit the target within their limited trajectory. This can be a real problem especially for Ballistas because they cant shoot downward and they need a straight line of sight so if you place them on the summit of a hill (sitting horizontaly) and the enemy is coming up the hill the ballistas generally wont be able to hit them.

This can happen with catapults too if the hill is steep enough. Positioning your troops just on the other side of a hill has always been a standard tactic used to protect them from artillery.

This actually just happened to me recently. I attacked a small enemy army with my own that had a few units of catapults/trebuchets in it because i had just come from a seige. The AI (without any missile units of their own to counter) realized i would just sit back and let my artillery use up their ammo before attaking positioned just behind the summit of a large hill in the center whereas normally they would have deployed at the top to gain the height advantage. Due to their perfect placement my artillery couldnt line up a shot on them without getting too close which rendered them useless so i gave the order to assault and crushed them anyway. I have to say that i was impressed and frustrated that the AI pulled that little tactic on me. I was really hoping i could just sit back for a bit and enjoy the explosions and flaming enemies but they denied me that little pleasure so killed them to the last man and slaughtered those who surrendered (by trebuchet firing squad).

[Kadagar_AV]

Ehum... guys...

It's a bug.

and it's the same with archers, they dont fire where ordered to.

*PLEASE stop trying to explain bugs with pseudo-historical knowledge*

same as the charge bug. And the "10 out of 75 guys fighting" bug, same as the passive AI bug, same as the "when AI attack cities they sometimes stand still and stare at the walls" bug aso.

Game is pretty filled with bugs. So pretty please start bashing the devs some, so they patch it.

[Martok]

Game is pretty filled with bugs. So pretty please start bashing the devs some, so they patch it.

I hope you didn't mean that last sentence literally, as bashing CA is specifically prohibited here. Bugs are annoying, yes--some obviously more so than others--and they should definitely be brought to CA's attention so they can be fixed. All we ask is that you please keep the criticism constructive.

If you haven't already done so, I recommend posting the bug in the Org bug list.

[shifty157]

If you haven't already done so, I recommend posting the bug in the Org bug list.

If indeed this is a bug and not just someone trying to force his artillery to do things that are physically impossible and then wondering why they dont do what he says. I havent seen any problems with artillery when you take into account the terrain and the fact that (unlike archers that can shoot at any angle they want) artillery has a finite range of trajectories which it can shoot in.

[Oaty]

If you had them in a group that's the answer. If they are a group and you tell them to target a unit all units that are firing keep firing on there desiganated target if one is not firing at all while others are on a target the one that wasnt firing will follow that order.

The easiest way to work this is to select the group hit g, this will ungroup them and then selct your target and they will fire on the designated target on thier next cycle. Then quickly hit g and group them back up.

[Kobal2fr]

It's NOT a bug, it's a feature (no, really, no irony in that sentence, for once). Archers and arty will chose their own targets if you select them as a group and order them to fire at one unit.

In that case, the game group automation takes over and assigns each single unit a single, best target, out of the same code that lets you order a full charge of your battleline with a single click, pairing your units with those of the opponent.

If you want archers or arty to fire at a precise target, give them the order separately.

If still the archers/arty won't fire at the target, it's because either they don't see them, or can't get a good "firing solution" because your own men are in the way, or there's an enemy just on the edge of their skirmish range (that part is mostly true for javelins and IS slightly buggish, but it was already there in Rome, and was worse in MTW since back then javelin range was shorter than skirmish range. Just toggle skirmish off and turn it back on when there's a real danger to be overrun)

[Mahrabals apprentice]

If indeed this is a bug and not just someone trying to force his artillery to do things that are physically impossible and then wondering why they dont do what he says. I havent seen any problems with artillery when you take into account the terrain and the fact that (unlike archers that can shoot at any angle they want) artillery has a finite range of trajectories which it can shoot in.

I am playing on the grassy plains map.
My artillery can shoot over my own troops and hit the archers they can not see because my own tropps are blocking their view. But they can not hit the infantry stand 10 yards behind the archers who are in range?
When the infantry advance they can not hit them when they are closer than the archers?
This is NOTHING to do with terrain in this case.


But I do usually have artillery in groups
I think that when I get home from work I will have to try ungrouped artillery to see if that solves my problem

Thank you.

[Daveybaby]

But I do usually have artillery in groups
I think that when I get home from work I will have to try ungrouped artillery to see if that solves my problem

You can leave them in groups, but you have to select them individually and tell them who to fire at. Works for archers, works for arty.

Ehum... guys...

It's a bug.

and it's the same with archers, they dont fire where ordered to.

*PLEASE stop trying to explain bugs with pseudo-historical knowledge*

*PLEASE* stop trying to explain the fact that you cant be bothered to learn how to play the game as bugs. It amazes me that people keep going on about the 'archer bug', when the tutorial specifically tells you whats going on.

[pevergreen]

I was attacking Antioch with crusader army, got attacked from behind by 1 levy spearman, general and 1 ballista.
They set up on a hill....the bottom of a hill (still on the slope)
As i had not faced arty before, i ran in with my spears (double clicking makes all the units charge in proper like in RTW)
The Ballista fired up the hill with flames and knocked out 57 crusaders sergants....ouch. (i went on to win)
The passive AI bug is a killer. Had an entire 20 unit stack of Scotland (3 archer units) face 7 spears 2 archers and 1 hobilar...i marched Scot army BEHIND the english, tore them down...after i killed their archers, they moved a bit, but then fled...sad sad day for england...

In response

You can leave them in groups, but you have to select them individually and tell them who to fire at. Works for archers, works for arty.

That is true, did huge battles to test Set up archers in front, swords behind general rear...just in front of general set 2 mortar (fire upwards) on wings each had 2 swords and a culverin.
The ai used all its ammo (as did i) then charged in..got snapped by stakes (i was england, they were scotland wasnt really fair :P)
That is smart ai...and that was on medium...

when the tutorial specifically tells you whats going on.

Theres a tuturial? :P it wasnt compulsery so many people will have skipped.

[Daveybaby]

Theres a tuturial? :P it wasnt compulsery so many people will have skipped.

Actually i skipped it too, so i initially thought it was a bug too. The difference is i actually had a look around on the forums to see what the problem was before i made my mind up.

Unfortunately it seems a lot of people just arent capable of taking that basic first step of self help, instead they just immediately throw a tantrum, without first checking:

(a) whether its actually a bug or your own fault (e.g. archery 'bug', 50% of the cav charge bug, aggressive campaign AI 'bug')
(b) if it is a bug, is there a work around, have CA already promised to patch it?
(c) if there's already a hundred other threads saying the same thing

That wasnt aimed at you, btw, pevergreen (or indeed maharabals - asking questions when you have a problem is always a good thing) - just felt the need to vent

[Dave1984]

(b) if it is a bug, is there a work around, have CA already promised to patch it?

Speaking of which, I saw somewhere the list of things they said would be dealt with in the patch some weeks ago, but I can't find it at all. Anyone know where it is?

[Daveybaby]

Think it was over at the .com.

[Musashi]

It's NOT a bug, it's a feature (no, really, no irony in that sentence, for once). Archers and arty will chose their own targets if you select them as a group and order them to fire at one unit.

In that case, the game group automation takes over and assigns each single unit a single, best target, out of the same code that lets you order a full charge of your battleline with a single click, pairing your units with those of the opponent.

If you want archers or arty to fire at a precise target, give them the order separately.

If still the archers/arty won't fire at the target, it's because either they don't see them, or can't get a good "firing solution" because your own men are in the way, or there's an enemy just on the edge of their skirmish range (that part is mostly true for javelins and IS slightly buggish, but it was already there in Rome, and was worse in MTW since back then javelin range was shorter than skirmish range. Just toggle skirmish off and turn it back on when there's a real danger to be overrun)

In that case it's a bad feature. It should be changed (Or at least made optional). It makes sense for melee troops, but not for missile troops (Which you OFTEN want to concentrate on one enemy unit until it breaks).

[Daveybaby]

In that case it's a bad feature. It should be changed (Or at least made optional). It makes sense for melee troops, but not for missile troops (Which you OFTEN want to concentrate on one enemy unit until it breaks).

It *is* optional.

If you select a group (i.e. a proper group formed using ctrl-G) then they will attack across a group of targets. Sometimes you WANT to wear down all of the units across the enemy's frontline.

If you select one at a time (whether theyre in a group or not) and give them individual orders, they will follow that order, concentrating fire if you so desire.

If you ctrl-click to select a number of archers (again, whether theyre in a group or not) and tell them all to fire on one enemy unit, they will do so.

I really dont see the problem here.

[Musashi]

It's a problem in that I want to hit 2 and click on a specific unit and have them fire on it. If I wanted them to spread their fire I'd simply leave them on fire at will and not give them any specific orders. Fire at will makes this feature REDUNDANT AND POINTLESS with regards to missile troops.

[Orda Khan]

I suggest testing this in custom battle for those who can not accept it is a bug. I never use artillery in field battles or MP but I did run a custom test. The catapult I took would not move to new location after constant orders. It also did not fire. Finally, when I was beginning to wonder if CA had decided to make them static, I ordered it forward a tiny bit. At last it moved and I was also now able to target enemy units.

It is another bug! Similar to the grouped units that refuse to obey orders yet obey if ungrouped. In SP such things are an annoyance. In MP it is a game killer

.....Orda