Dutch Elections

[Vladimir]

I'll be brief, mostly because I'm afraid to linger.

So, how'd they go? Don't spare any blood soaked, gory detail.

[InsaneApache]

Despite home advantage...a score draw....or more like an own goal.

Just what I heard from the sunny side of North Sea.

[Adrian II]

We're all back to normal.

[Stig]

Well everyone won, atleast that how everyone looks at it.

The Christians are biggest again: 41 and Labour lost (they're down to 32 (or something)), but they consider it a victory as the Christians lost 3 seats. The Socialist now have 26 (but the last 2 parties that once had 26 seats are now back to 3 and 0 (within 12 and 4 years)). The Liberals lost 6 and are down to 22. The Rascists come in at 9 seats, while the Green Party dropped to 7. The Animal Party comes in with 2 and they are a laugh (but that's my opinion). The so called Libertines lost 3 and are at 3. The Other Christians now have 6 and the Christian Fundamentalists allways have 2.

clear?

[InsaneApache]

Any room for a proper political party in that lot?

[Mithrandir]

not proper, so the Dutch will probably have elections in a year or so again.

[Aenlic]

I'm almost afraid to ask, but...

Politically speaking, what is an Animal Party? Do they dress up in animal costumes and do the freaky furry thing I saw on an episode of CSI?

[InsaneApache]

Shhhh! ....it's the Nederlands...always best not to ask......

[Adrian II]

Politically speaking, what is an Animal Party?

Politically speaking, an Animal Party is a bunch of spoilt, incoherent, superstitious upper-class twits who believe sheep, pets and fish are the new proletariat.

And I'm mincing my words here.

[Kralizec]

A short summary, I left out most parties that didn't make it. These are preliminary results.

PvdA (labour): lost badly, now at 32 seats, used to have 42. Nobody lost as many seats as them. Their #1 on the list, Wouter Bos has a reputation of being a flip-flopper. A lot of their old voters now chose SP (see below) instead.

CDA (Christian Democrats, centre-right): lost slightly, now at 41 (44 last election). Is the biggest party in the government, #1 on the list is our PM, JP Balkenende. He lacked popularity at first, but nowadays many view him as solid and reliable.

VVD (liberal, in the European sense of the word): also lost, now at 22 seats while they had 28 before.
Something odd about them: they had in-party elections a couple of months ago to determine who would be their #1 figure in the elections, a guy named Mark Rutte won by a small margin. His main competitor was Rita Verdonk, who was/is a polarizing figure who's much more popular with right wing voters. It turns out that last week she, the #2 on the list, actually got more votes then the #1, Rutte. There's now some discussion wether or not Rutte should step down.

SP (socialists): the greatest winner of this election, around 26 seats (9 last election). They seemingly ate away a lot of votes from disgruntled former PvdA voters, and also gained votes because their party is now more palatable to the mainstream then in previous elections.

PVV (literally: Party for Freedom. Right wing, conservative in some respects): a new party, and they're the other great winner of this election with 9 seats. The leader, Geert Wilders, used to be a MP for VVD till he got booted for making anti-islamic statements that didn't fit well with the rest of the party. After a living as a hermit for a while (due to death threats), he created his own party. The two points that his party is based on: no more immigration, lower taxes. The candidates he gathered have no experience to speak of and at least one of them, the #2, is a blithering idiot (see video if you understand dutch)

Groenlinks (Green leftist): 7 seats (one less then earlier) Not much to say about this one.

D66 (liberal in the European sense of the word, unlike the VVD they're relatively leftist): 3 seats (6 in previous election) Used to be part of Balkenende's cabinet, time wich they generally spent pissing away their credibility. I'm surprised they managed to get 3 seats still.

Christenunie (christians, duh): 6 seats, 3 in the former election. Generally they have leftist views, except when it comes to abortion, gay marriage and euthanesia. Most people agree they ran an excellent campaign.

SGP (christians, Conservative): 2 seats, just like last time. They're very conservative on pretty much everything (party membership is limited to males), and they have a loyal but very small voting base.

PvdD (literally: Party for the Animals): a one-issue party, the one issue being animal welfare. Actually managed to get two seats...

Fortuyn (right wing, conservative in some respects: didn't get any seats. I mention them because they used to have 8 (and once not less then 26)
Their former voting base finally lost all trust in them, and voted PvdV (Wilders) instead.

[Aenlic]

Thanks for that wonderful clarification, Kralizec.

So, let me get this straight. You have a party whose sole platform is animal rights and they actually managed to get 2 seats? I thought we had it bad here in the US.

[Kralizec]

Well, we have a system of proportional representation, resulting in a large variety of parties, and on occasional a crazy one makes it into parliament. In this case they got 2 seats out of a total of 150. Almost a non-issue.

In comparison, the new US congress will consist of roughly 232 democrats and about 199 republicans

I forgot to mention, the numbers of seats I mentioned in my post are only the preliminary results.

[Aenlic]

I prefer a proportional system. It would solve the main problem we have in the U.S., the fact that you can't fit a rhetorical razor blade between the two parties' positions except during election season. They might as well call themselves Republocrats or Demopublicans or something.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Yeah, but on the down side you can end up hamstrung like the Knesset. I still prefer "first past the post" to that. Maybe that multiple choice thingee that Pappy is always on about would be better.

[Don Corleone]

Can one of my Dutch amigos explain the difference between VVd and Christian Democrat? I don't understand the differnce between being slightly right of center and pro-free market policies. Are there aspects to European liberalism of which I am unaware?

[CBR]

Yeah, but on the down side you can end up hamstrung like the Knesset.

One could use a higher threshold. In Israel its 2% (and earlier 1%) Plus Israel might not be the best example of the proportional system, as its a new country born out of several wars and a near continous conflict and with jewish immigrants from different cultures. A more settled country would perhaps produce a more stabile situation.


CBR

[Stig]

Can one of my Dutch amigos explain the difference between VVd and Christian Democrat?

ok

CDA (Christians)
VVD (Liberals)
PVDA (Labour)
SP (Socialists, almost communists)
GroenLinks (the Green party)
PVV (Rascists)
D66 (So called Libertines)
CU (Christians, a bit more conservative then CDA)
SGP (Christian fundamentalists)
PvdD (Animal party, idiots, think animals should have rights, want to ban all sorts of farming which make the food cheap)

Some problems:
You need to have 76 seats or more to get a goverment.
Traditionally these can work:
CDA-VVD
CDA-PVDA
PVDA-VVD
but all don't make the 76
left is out of the order:
PVDA-SP-GroenLinks, not 76
right is out of the order to, because no-one wants the PVV to co-operate, as they're clear rascists.

[Fragony]

Ahum! PVV is not a racist party, they just don't think islam is the greatest thing that ever happened to us.

Neither do I

(before anyone asks, no I didn't vote for them)

edit, MUHA my mother voted for the animal-party, I still love her but geez.

Their leader is cute though,

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Wow, I would actually hit that. Are you sure she's a politician?

[Fragony]

Wow, I would actually hit that. Are you sure she's a politician?

Thanks to people like my mother she is now

Don't really mind them that much, less votes for Femke Halseme of the greens (who is also pretty cute)



I actually wouldn't mind paying extra for honest meat where animals are treated respectfully. I allready do buy good meat so no loss here. But they also want to ban fishing, never!

[Stig]

Ahum! PVV is not a racist party, they just don't think islam is the greatest thing that ever happened to us.

Well if you say that:
-no more muslims should be allowed in Holland because they are muslims, are you racist?
-Turkey shouldn't be allowed to join the EU, because it's a muslim country, are you racist?
-all muslims are bad, are you racist?

need I continue?


Anyway I agree, Marianne Thieme does look far better then Rita Verdonk:






erhh sorry, I meant Rita Verdonk:

[Fragony]

Well if you say that:
-no more muslims should be allowed in Holland because they are muslims, are you racist?

nope, just smart, enough already.

-Turkey shouldn't be allowed to join the EU, because it's a muslim country, are you racist?

nope, just realistic.

-all muslims are bad, are you racist?

yes, but he never said that. He says dutch culture is superior to the culture of the islamic countries, and I agree. How could I not given the state of these countries.

[Stig]

*mumbles*
racist

[Fragony]

*mumbles*
racist

[Stig]

hey voted D66

[Fragony]

The biggest joke ever, although I have to admit that Kaya, incidently, is pretty cute.

[econ21]

...the animal-party, ...Their leader is cute though...

...Femke Halseme of the greens (who is also pretty cute) ...

...Kaya, incidently, is pretty cute...

I am starting to detect a theme here.

I know power is supposed to be an aphrodisiac but this is getting ridiculous.

[Stig]

As I said the real power is here, and it isn't cute:

[Fragony]

Verdonk ain't that ugly, pretty attractive for her age.



Do not mess with this woman, she bites

[Kralizec]

Can one of my Dutch amigos explain the difference between VVd and Christian Democrat? I don't understand the differnce between being slightly right of center and pro-free market policies. Are there aspects to European liberalism of which I am unaware?

VVD follows classical liberalism, while the CDA is generally viewed as centrist. In almost all post-war elections*, the CDA and its predecessors became part of the cabinet. They either formed a cabinet with the VVD, or the PvdA (labour)
They're not completely indifferent about their partners though: the PvdA participated in 10 post-war cabinets, the VVD in 16, while the PvdA almost always managed to get more seats.
I chose centre-right as their description because their current leader, Balkenende, seems a tad more conservative then most of his predecessors, and he openly declares his preference for the VVD over the PvdA.

Forming a coalition is going to be extremely difficult now, because there are no 2 parties that can form a majority together in parliament. I don't like it, but I think the most likely outcome is a cabinet of CDA-PvdA-SP


*(the only exception to this is the so-called Purple cabinets, 1994-2002. They were coalitions between PvdA (red), VVD (blue, hence "Purple") and the D66. This were the only cabinets that didn't have christian democrats in them, and the only cabinets where the PvdA and the VVD were partners.)