Russia's new approach to dealing with "extremists"

[Kralizec]

Truly unbelievable

This had better be fake.

[Ice]

The irony is, one of its functions is to battle extremism.

I can believe it though, it's Russia. I doubt it's fake.

[Don Corleone]

The only part of the story I find difficult to believe is that Putin would be so foolishly arrogant as to parade his policy of assination worldwide. Even Bush wears the figleaf that we don't engage in personal assinations unless the target is a known terrorist that has killed Americans. For the Russians, the burden is reduced to 'simply tick Putin off'. Maybe one of these days, my European friends will wake up and realize we're not the 'evil empire', somebody else owns that title.

[CrossLOPER]

Russian news sites that are pretty open about such matters mention nothing of the sort. I am still looking. News such as this would be announced here.

If it is real, I question both its nature and necessity. This policy is nothing new. It has been in effect on differing terms since the Soviet Union came about and was quite healthy long after. It was monitored much like any other special operations dealing and was never used to target anyone too "innocent".

Besides, Britain has its share of Russian bandits and I would not be surprised that Litvinenko got himself into some trouble without help from Federal assassins.

EDIT: I look after all of you with close eyes...

[lars573]

I seriously doubt Czar Vladimir Putin I is that brazen. He may be a lot of things (saintly not being among them), but he's not that stupid. When I say he I mean the man personally. He seems to have more than a few dimwitted sycophant underlings who are will do such moronic things. Thinking that it's still 70's USSR and you can say "It never happend!" and people will believe you.

[CrossLOPER]

I seriously doubt Czar Vladimir Putin I is that brazen. He may be a lot of things (saintly not being among them), but he's not that stupid. When I say he I mean the man personally. He seems to have more than a few dimwitted sycophant underlings who are will do such moronic things. Thinking that it's still 70's USSR and you can say "It never happend!" and people will believe you.

I suppose that a similar parallel can be drawn along side westerners who believe everything they read and make odd assumptions.

[yesdachi]

It’s the law every president wants.

[Don Corleone]

It’s the law every president wants.

Don't kid yourself, it's the law every head of state already has, including W. This is my point. Only a fool would close their eyes and say their government would never do such a thing. But only a bigger fool would actually have a law publicly passed confirming that they are indeed engaging in such a policy. That's the part that makes no sense to me. With our without the act passed by the Russian parliment, Putin could snuff somebody in London, or in East Peoria, Illinois for that matter, any time he feels like it. What could he possibly gain by having his legislative body draft a law confirming for all the world that he is in fact engaging in such activities and is authorized to do so.

What's more, it's a nonsense law. The Russian Parliment doesn't have that kind of authority that it can decide what's legal and what's illegal in other countries. Trust me, if one of Putin's assassins gets picked up in Barcelona for offing a particularly troubling CIA agent, that law isn't going to be worth the paper it's written on.

[cegorach]

Trust me, if one of Putin's assassins gets picked up in Barcelona for offing a particularly troubling CIA agent, that law isn't going to be worth the paper it's written on.

To us or to him ?

I remind you the Stalin's constitution of 1930s - many beautiful slogans which were violated on daily basis.

Russian legal tradition has one fatal flaw - noone really cares what is written, it is seen as the requirement of the civilied world to create certain rules, only to violate them when required. It is just to keep some people happy... a game of deceit as in the XVIIIth, XIXth and XXth century.

I must admitt it is quite bold though, never before it was announced so openly.

[yesdachi]

Don't kid yourself, it's the law every head of state already has, including W. This is my point. Only a fool would close their eyes and say their government would never do such a thing. But only a bigger fool would actually have a law publicly passed confirming that they are indeed engaging in such a policy. That's the part that makes no sense to me.

It is a power many heads of state have (even W) but not all of them have the power made into law.

I am not sure of the benefit of making this so public unless it is an attempt to make Putin (who I kind of like, he seems tough but not in an evil coo-coo sort of way) look bad.

[Banquo's Ghost]

I am not sure of the benefit of making this so public unless it is an attempt to make Putin (who I kind of like, he seems tough but not in an evil coo-coo sort of way) look bad.

I'm amazed, yesdachi. Putin is one of the most dangerous world leaders extant. He is leading his country back into the dictatorship and totalitarism that so bedevilled the last century.

He has completely stripped out any freedom of the press. He utilises state power for personal economic gain and to enrich friends - trampling over international treaties as he goes. He bullies other nations using both resource hegemony and military threats. He owns the political process and has eliminated almost all opposition - and that elimination includes assassination and subversion of the judicial process, such as it is. He is about to overturn the constitution to ensure he has a third term.

There's a huge level of evidence to implicate him in the Moscow apartment bombings, which he blamed on the Chechens, allowed him to start one of the most brutal wars of a brutal time, and secure his road to the presidency. (If you doubt me, look up the FSB and the Ryazan bomb discovery in 1999).

A certain kind of Russian likes this kind of strong man, as they liked Stalin. You will see many of them defending him. A free citizen should never think he is anything other than dangerous.

The west is so consumed by islamic terrorist threats, they can't see what goes on in this old enemy - perhaps because we connived at making Russia what it now is. It's ironic that the UK has warned about radioactive terror attacks but the people who actually contaminated parts of London with an isotope only available to government are supposed to be "friends".

[lars573]

Given how things are in Russia Putin (or a man like him) is the lesser evil. When the choices are your nation always being on the verge of socio-economic collapse or a much more stable dictatorship. What would you choose? I'd choose the dictatorship.

Russia is finding it's own way. We can't expect them to act like a western nation. They aren't geographically or culturally. In fact many in Russia look unfavorably on western ideals. Seeing them as being corrupt and trying to steal the position of proper Russian ones. I know exactly how that sounds, but the majority of Russians think Putin is the best way.

[yesdachi]

I'm amazed, yesdachi. Putin is one of the most dangerous world leaders extant. He is leading his country back into the dictatorship and totalitarism that so bedevilled the last century.

Well, other than that he’s ok.

Russia seems like a rough and corrupt place, I see Putin as a “strongman” who is keeping his rough and corrupt country under control and even nearing… prosperous. Even Russia’s pussycat leaders have been tough mothers compared to most of our western leaders, Putin is no different.

“He has completely stripped out any freedom of the press”
This is not good but I don’t see this as completely bad, the press in the US is insanely powerful, often making the news rather than reporting in.

“He utilizes state power for personal economic gain and to enrich friends”
Doesn’t sound very nice but considering that the people he has wrestled the economic gain from were corrupt companies who often opposed the state or the people; I don’t see this as completely bad either.

“Trampling over international treaties as he goes”
It is difficult for me to say he is trampling when other countries are ignoring the same or similar treaties or agreements.

“He bullies other nations using both resource hegemony and military threats”
May not be nice but who doesn’t?

I don’t care much for the political control he has or how he has secured the position he is in and I do think Russia needs to be carefully monitored but Putin and Russia are not making wild threats of genocide or to wipe other countries off the map, He is struggling to control an unruly country while maintaining his authority and power without rape rooms, wmd use or ethnic cleansing . It’s just my 2 cents but I don’t see Putin or Russia as a “threat” like I see North Korea or Iran, Putin’s goals and self control are far more rational.

I am wide open to changing my mind on this topic, my information is limited but I do have some Russian friends that have given me a little insight.

[KrooK]

LOl I don' understand your reaction guys.
This law is copied from US law when president can use Army whenever he want, to secure American businesses.

[cegorach]

It is not. The definition of the 'extremists' is not precise here and includes people who criticise the policy of Kremlin.

If it was directed only at the real terrorists there would be litle to worry about.

[CrossLOPER]

I distinctly remember a French study that proposed extraction with Cyanex, a variety of mixtures used to study radioactive substances. I believe the result was inconclusive. Regardless, whoever chose polonium clearly had access to either method or technology.

As for safety, I never mentioned that such a method would be safe, let alone efficient or easy.

[Aenlic]

I distinctly remember a French study that proposed extraction with Cyanex, a variety of mixtures used to study radioactive substances. I believe the result was inconclusive. Regardless, whoever chose polonium clearly had access to either method or technology.

As for safety, I never mentioned that such a method would be safe, let alone efficient or easy.

Agreed, CrossLOPER. I'm just being unnecessarily scrupulous in my definitions.

In any case, it is true that it need not be a government which produced the polonium 210. It's just that the most likely source was a government lab or a government controlled lab at some point. Also containing and delivering such a small amount that it wouldn't start self-heating (would have to be much less than a gram, I think) is pretty high-tech in itself.

I'm deeply interested in the results of the autopsy; but that won't be released until the investigation into Litvinenko's death is concluded. I suspect that the investigation won't ever be concluded, especially if the origin really is a program such as the one pointed out in original post in the this thread.

If, as I believe, the poison was introduced to Litvinenko via inhalation rather than ingenstion, then that would explain how Scaramella and Litvinenko's wife exhibit low levels of polonium 210. If there was a large enough source in Litvinenko's lungs, then the vaporization caused by spalling would have allowed miniscule amounts to be exhaled by him. Thus close associates, his wife and Scaramella, who were in sitting scross from him at some point as he exhaled would then be at risk for also inhaling extremely small amount. I can't think of any other explanation, since Scaramella didn't eat a meal when Litvinenko did, and his wife was no where near. The fact that both were also exposed, and polonium in their systems can only get there via ingestion or inhalation, certainly lowers the available vectors.

And that's a very interesting story, as well, Cegorach. The implications are not good. If dissent with Putin, of any kind, is deemed to carry a covert death sentence, then that alone will dampen dissent even if it's not true. It's a scary thought.

[CrossLOPER]

*poof*

EDIT: Screw it. Do your own research and go read some old articles... I don't need to dirty or protect the name of anyone. They'll do it well themselves!

Haha!

Note: Aenlic, this was not directed at you.

[Vladimir]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../npoison01.xml

• The assassins were so bungling that they dropped the polonium on the floor of a London hotel room, a senior government source told The Daily Telegraph yesterday.

Good to know that someone else considers them amateurs.

HTTP://WWW.FOXNEWS.COM/STORY/0,2933,234017,00.HTML

PUTIN ANGRY WITH BRITAIN FOR NOT QUIETING EX-RUSSIAN SPY ON DEATHBED

How dare he speak out against the great leader!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...6268_2,00.html

Litvinenko's father, Walter, said in an interview published today that his son - who was born an Orthodox Christian but had close links to Islamist rebels in Chechnya - had requested to be buried according to Muslim tradition after converting to Islam on his deathbed.
"He said ’I want to be buried according to Muslim tradition’," Mr Litvinenko told Moscow's Kommersant daily.

Definitely adds an interesting twist.

[CrossLOPER]

Too lazy to translate myself, but this should do:

"During November 1998 Litvinenko and several former colleagues of special services stated at the press conference that they were participants in the plot FSB against Boris berezovskiy and it had to kill owner. During November 2000 Litvinenko illegally it moved into London, while during May 2001 was obtained in Great Britain political refuge. In 2003 Litvinenko it came out by the co-author of the book "FSB it explodes Russia", with which Russian special services were charged with the explosions of apartment houses in Moscow in the fall of 1999."(Lenta.ru)

Berezovskiy is one of those men that don't like being threatened.

[Watchman]

And IIRC on bad terms with the Kremlin too.

...maybe it's just me, but until some good evidence turns up insinuations that blatantly seek to pin the blame on him are going to look awfully suspect.

[CrossLOPER]

...

...What?

[Watchman]

"Two birds with one stone" say anything ?