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Thread: 100 strategies to ensure victory in shogun

  1. #1
    Member Member Magyar Khan's Avatar
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    Hi, some people asked me "mag, please learn me how to win"
    some guys get some personal training stuff but most of these tactics are just good unit management. real tactics goes further than this. especially playing on unfair but challenging maps as an attacker gives space for a creative mind to solve the puzzle ahead....

    on my mongol page i have put 33 of 100 strategies to read for u. it is extracted from a book, my girlfriend typed it for u. the other 67 will follow next week.

    go look at www.mongols.club.tip.nl and look left at "100 strategies".

    Good luck
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  2. #2
    Member Member theforce's Avatar
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    U forgot the most importand man.... flanking with stormtroopers!

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  3. #3
    Senior Member Senior Member Vanya's Avatar
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    I liked this one (14):

    "If soldiers date to move ahead but dare not retreat, it is because they fear the general and not the enemy..."

    The dating part is interesting... so samurai must sleep their way to the top! EEK! I hope the daimyo is female!
    [Sips sake, eats popcorn]

  4. #4
    Senior Member Senior Member Vanya's Avatar
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    Hmmm... 32: ..."encamp on highlands"...

    'Nuff said...
    >:
    [Sips sake, eats popcorn]

  5. #5
    Member Member Magyar Khan's Avatar
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    hehe

    17 more added, so 50 now...
    Clan Wolves: 10 years in Total War
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  6. #6

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    hey mag, does ur gf have a younger sister?...
    In my sword; the wind, in my heart; courage, in my eyes; death...I am Minagawa

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    Member Member RageFury's Avatar
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    I hear a lot of talk of using tactics from real life....however i have studied The Art of War and a lot about Ancient Greek and Roman Warfare....... I am also fairly good at this game


    Apart from certain things like morale and the advantage of height..this game does not follow any rules of realism in the strictest sense....

    The game is not about knowing rules of war in real life...it is about knowing how to play the game...because it is just a game


    Magyar u play the game like a master.. but i don't think it is because of ur knowledge of real world tactics...its because u know how to play the game


    Fury
    "The only certainties in life are that we are born and we die. The rest is just a sea of complexity"

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    Senior Member Senior Member ShaiHulud's Avatar
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    hmmm... Rage? Ever heard of the term 'KriegSpeil'?

    It would seem that many armies, since the Prussians, have found 'games' to be of use in developing tactics and strategy.

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  9. #9
    Member Member edRonin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by RageFury:
    Apart from certain things like morale and the advantage of height..this game does not follow any rules of realism in the strictest sense....
    Fury
    [/QUOTE]

    Rage, what other factors of war is S:TW missing? It has LOS (line of sight), fatigue, flanking, ambushing, cover, weather, time and formations. I am sure there are some factors that are missing but that is an impressive list. It's as close to what I assume is realistic combat as any game I have ever played.

    That being said this is not real combat so it is about knowing how to play the game. But that is every game. The only people who can truly tell us about the realism of war are those who have fought in one. Luckily all my combat has been simulated.


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  10. #10
    Member Member Contubernalis's Avatar
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    I hope you bought the Lady some flowers, Maggy .
    I look forward to the other 50 (type faster my Mongol princess!).

  11. #11
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    Great work mag.

    But fury is a bit right because some real-life tactics are of course not found in a game.

    The Art Of War remains the best strategy guide...

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  12. #12
    Member Member Magyar Khan's Avatar
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    i didnt ment to give the impression that u need the 100 rules to win in shogun. i even found that -to win- many battles are just processing some tricks and micromanaging but on certain battles more cunning is really needed in which i sadly found that just a few players are using them. for example, somethimes players ask me how it was possible that they started of as a defender against me on totomi and ended as the attacker. good players with wargame experience know the answer.

    especially in 3 vs 3 games i noticed more is needed than just pressing some buttons to have a fluid winning game...

    btw i noticed that on the first list of 50 rules (which i just copied from a book!) some are really working. like spying (rule 3), make the enemy feel arrogant (rule 21), but also see 43 and i like 33 and even 2 will do. i noticed many players just play without having a plan how to attack.
    Clan Wolves: 10 years in Total War
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  13. #13
    Insomniac and tired of it Senior Member Slyspy's Avatar
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    Are you a Saints fan Rage?


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    "Put 'em in blue coats, put 'em in red coats, the bastards will run all the same!"

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    Member Member Paolai's Avatar
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    ehehhe Magyar,

    I will always remember the first or the second lesson that you gave me: I was defending AKI, then you said me "Now i will teach you how is possible to force a defender to attack"....and you did it

    ciao
    EuroPaolai

    [This message has been edited by Paolai (edited 03-15-2001).]

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    Member Member theforce's Avatar
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    Altough you are a master at this game(bows), too there are some rules that aren't any helpful. Yes, Shogun might be the most strategy accurate game but there are more things. I mean that if the enemy is in a forest then lets burn it down and tons of other things like that. If l was a warrior!
    l wouldn't die for an asshole daimyo or general but l would die for a good and honorable general


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    Don't use only honour, use theforce, too. http://www.darksideshogunclan.cjb.net
    Enter the Darkside...

    [This message has been edited by theforce (edited 03-15-2001).]
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    Member Member RageFury's Avatar
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    NO mate I am not a Saints Fan lol....

    Anyway....perhaps i was not too clear in my last post.... i did not mean that the game was unrealistic in physical aspects such as weather.line of sight etc.....these are related to the physics of our world and r very realistic.....

    What i was suggesting is that in this game there are areas that r not realistic that can be exploited (high honour musks) and there are a lot of tactics used in war in this time period that physically would not work in shogun....no matter how much u want to the only tactics that work in this game are those that r nmental and passive


    U can not dfend passes...cannotdestroy/defend towns..some units r unrealistic,....army selection is unrealistic...cannot skirt an army...can only flank as long as map allows... etc etc...

    Alll of these r limits because it is a GAME......this is why i say that no matter how many physical tactics u know....they cannot all be implemented in the game...only the passive ones...such as the ones magy listed above

    if i am still being misunderstood a bit feel free to chat on messenger and i will explain wot i mean properly.... ragefury2@hotmail.com (messenger)
    ICQ#:110774639




    Fury

    [This message has been edited by RageFury (edited 03-15-2001).]
    "The only certainties in life are that we are born and we die. The rest is just a sea of complexity"

  17. #17
    Member Member edRonin's Avatar
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    Thanks for clarifying Rage. You are right. There are balancing issues with units. It is also odd that you can purchase honor 9 Ashigaru (how does unit of untrained peasants gain that much skill).

    It would be cool to destroy towns. It might force that army camping on the hill to come down and engage. That could actually be a good way to removing camping in the online games. Each map has a town. If the town is destroyed the defending army takes a moral hit. So the defender can either take a position that allows him to defend the town or can stay camped on the best hill and watch it burn. When the attackers approach the defenders the height advantage the defenders have is somewhat offset by the moral hit they took.

    We are getting 50% bigger maps in the XPack so hopefully we don't feel quite so constrained by the borders of the map. They definitely could make maps which would be equivalent to a mountain pass. They wouldn't be that much more difficult to conquer than a bridge map.

    The key point is that it is just a game. Constrained by the power of current processors and memory available. So there are limitations.

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  18. #18
    Member Member Yamaga Shimazu's Avatar
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    There is a subtle difference between an arcade and a simulation.

    In simulation if u cannot outturn the missile (which u must rely on instruments to know if there's one tracking you), u are shot down and 80% dead.
    In arcade u can see and outturn the missile, but u can also be hit and not die.

    STW is an arcade and as such it mostly depends on players' attitude when buying armies.

    The tacitcs involved are minimal bc there is no logic standing when a yari samurai unit is on the field. ...a unit history proved nonexistent. And there is no logics applaible successfully when a honor point can mean victory or defeat.
    This on the honor is the most unbalancing factor making the possible impossible.
    There also is no logics appliable when an army is consistently a monk horde, with the weakest spot being a gunner u can't charge.

    I was killed 3 monks 2 ys and 1 hc by a single yari ashigaru honor8. So please in the name of the lord don't go telling me of tactics in this game lest i think you are drunk or mad

    As it is now, its all a monk rush or a gunfight and this is the reason why i seldom play normal games, refuse playing competitive. 99% of times by merely observing the opposing army i know if i will win or not. And believe me, there's no need to play tactics its a mere honor to honor fight...therefore a koku to koku.

    The players attitude: i would like to make some gentlemen agreements to stop cheating and monk rushing which are definitely killing this game.

    To Mag: Mag, ure a heck of a player but i think fury is right. Undoubtedly u know how to levy troops and exploiting the arcade component of this game. I think you're a heck of a player and presumably among the best if not the top player.

    But don't forget this detail...playing stw is playing a game, and this game is not a simulation...unless players agree to make it someway.

    As to tactics, u all have known for ages what i think about this
    I personally think the CA mentioned sun tzu to sell more.
    This game has nothing in common with sun tzu.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Senior Member Vanya's Avatar
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    Bigger maps?!? Woohoo!!!

    Will the current-sized maps still work? Will we have 2 sizes of map -- Small and Large? (Or, if you are in fast foot, that would be MEDIUM and LARGE... SMALL is not an option there :lol ).

    What will a bigger Totomi look like? Will it have a chicken farm and a sake distillery?!?

    mmmmmm... sake...!


    [Sips sake, eats popcorn]

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    Member Member EuroSan's Avatar
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    First Yama & Fury I agree 100% with you both!!

    Second.....where is the tactic in this game??? Just learn what unit that beats what unit and play smart and quick....
    Not much tactical..learn the bugs and so on and in a battle place right unit vs the right and get a flank to break first and you win.....
    And to the Moral thing like i wrote a long time ago to. A true Samuraij didn┤t run when facing 100 vs 400 they fought to death(not the Peasents/ashis)
    So i would say to have more tactical games droop the Moral setting, becuse the game is to bugged witht this running and running.
    Just see the history of Japanese soldiers....even the Kamikaze pilots...die for honour and country
    And play with max 2 of each units 10k then you want see monk rushers and etc etc...

    Well thats all i had to say, may the honour be with you all


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    May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan
    May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan

  21. #21
    Member Member Magyar Khan's Avatar
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    but as u said EuropeSan about the flanking, it is a tactic!
    and the morale thing somethimes sucks but then again i think the whole melee formula is nicely done in the game imo, especially when u consider the game plays fine enough. still the game needs balancing stuff and we both agree balanced games are much more fun.
    ----------------------
    but in 3 vs 3 tactics are really necessarry to ensure a fluid victory.
    ----------------------
    for example i did this one once with 2 fears (i think ship and elmarko) on harima against 3 other players, i started left with my Mongol army of 10 cav and 6 foottroopers. then i asked the far right player (ship) to field a strong army and attack his player from the start, i rushed with all horses to his side to overweight that flank 16units with 10 additional horses ( 3 ycav, 6ha, 1 hc (general) can do that! and added 6 foottroopers to elmarko in the middle. my opposing player reacted far too late and his army was much too slow to get the overweighted side. if one side collapsed and elmarko was defending the middle against 2 armies, just slightly advancing ship and my cav turned left and kaboom.... that is what i call tactics and i like it. sadly i still dont know how to determine which banner u need to be the farright player and with some allies this all is impossible to communicate...:P

    so when i mean tactics i mean this kind of stuff

    did i wrote this long post?
    Clan Wolves: 10 years in Total War
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  22. #22
    Member Member Katasaki Hirojima's Avatar
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    God I want a good connection..I wanna play Mp too.I'v been trying to get a DSL account,but seems thw world runs on credit,and that leaves me out.I might get a new mouse,that whould help a major problem of mine.My mouse isn't very responsive when moving to the left.up down and right are fine but left is shot.*L*Andwhile my mouse is slowly makeing its way across the screen to get ahold of my dumb arse left flank that decided to move ahead of the line,I can't and they end up getting caught and routed.

    After technical problems are solved,then i'd like to be "learned";P

    ------------------
    "I maintain none the less that Yin-Tang Dualism can bo overcome.With sufficent enlightment,we can give substance to any distinction:Mind without body,north without south,pleasure without pain.Renember,enlightment is a function of will power,not of physical strength."-Shang-ji Yang,essays on mind and matter.
    I maintain none the less that Yin-Yang Dualism can be overcome. With sufficent enlightment, we can give substance to any distinction: Mind without body, north without south, pleasure without pain. Renember, enlightment is a function of will power, not of physical strength.- Shang-ji Yang

  23. #23
    Member Member EuroSan's Avatar
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    And I Agree on that to Magy...I was talking about 1v1...the others 2v2 and up are totaly team tactic┤s...




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    May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan
    May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan

  24. #24
    Member Member Anssi Hakkinen's Avatar
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    EuroSan, I posted earlier about the morale thing, but to do a recap: The samurai are not machines. Routs were quite common historically - most 16th century battles were resolved either through routs or, in some rare cases, mass suicide. Fighting to the last man, as it is seen in STW, was a rare occurrence indeed - not to even mention the fact that it's phenomenally dull to play. Maybe the occurrence of mass routs should be decreased *somewhat*, but that can be achieved by increasing the troops' honor instead.

    ------------------
    "The warrior's lies are called strategy -- the only honest people are the farmers and townsmen."
    - Akechi Mitsuhide
    "It is a good viewpoint to see the world as a dream. When you have something like a nightmare, you will wake up and tell yourself that it was only a dream. It is said that the world we live in is not a bit different from this".
    - Yamamoto Tsunetomo: Hagakure

  25. #25
    Member Member EuroSan's Avatar
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    I know Anssi....but i feel the units here is running more then the Milisia did in the Cival(US) War


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    May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan

    [This message has been edited by EuroSan (edited 03-16-2001).]
    May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan

  26. #26
    Senior Member Senior Member Vanya's Avatar
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    Wise man Confucius say:

    "Soldier who flees from battle, lives to fight another day."

    This proved a tad inappropriate in the Japanese landscape. So old man Vanya altered it to say:

    "Soldier who flees from battle, lives to flee another day."

    But, then, when the Daimyo was faced with a Mongol invasion, the Daimyo proclaimed:

    "Soldier who flees from battle, will be catapulted naked onto enemy formations with a sanda bom up his arse from a bovine chukka another day."

    All of this wisdom I learned from the samurai that take to the fields of EA every day... and recount their tales to my shinobi only because they either were victorious... or they fled like whipped dogs... But alas, history is the recollection of the victors, not the whipped dogs that took the Chicken Run...



    [This message has been edited by Vanya (edited 03-16-2001).]
    [Sips sake, eats popcorn]

  27. #27

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    This game is slam packed full with the ability to use tactics. As a avid chess player i find remarkable simalaraties. On the shogun field, one moves his troops as pieces on a chess board. A good player/general ponders each move he makes in regards to what reaction it will receive. If you know what a person will do before he does it u can bait them or set up a good troop matchup. Knowalge is key, tacics will seperate the rushers/campers from the very good players.

  28. #28

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    so what about the sister question?...
    In my sword; the wind, in my heart; courage, in my eyes; death...I am Minagawa

  29. #29
    Member Member Magyar Khan's Avatar
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    the other 50 are finished but not placed on the site yet. it will be in some days...

    and yes she got a beautiful sister too...
    Clan Wolves: 10 years in Total War
    visit us at wolves.magyarkhan.org
    and youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/ClanWolves
    and watch a Creative Assembly employee struggle in battle....

  30. #30
    Member Member Contubernalis's Avatar
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    My flight for the Netherlands leaves at 9AM maggy!

    Be sure to let us know when you get the rest posted!

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