Canadians in Afghanistan

[Goofball]

Hello all. This is real footage of a Canadian dismounted platoon of PPCLI being ambushed by some Taliban in Afghanistan recently. Some highlights:
1) A WO standing on top of a building firing a C6 machine gun from the hip;
2) Later in the video, when you hear one of the troops say something like "Yeah, let 'em have it" you are hearing the sound of the 25mm cannons on top of the LAVs opening up and laying out a healthy serving of ass-kicking...

Last Saturday I had a chance to meet three of the soldiers involved and get a more detailed description of what happened. End result? Zero Canadian dead, but not much left of the Taliban...

The website makes you sign up for a membership before it let's you watch the video, but it's free and the only info you have to provide is email address and postal code. Just enter 12345 for the postal code if you're not from the U.S.

And don't worry, there's no blood/guts in the video.

http://shock.military.com/Shock/vide...Content=116556

[lars573]

So those guys you met must have told you the guy with the C6 was a Warrant. Cause it's right in the way of his rank badge.

[Fragony]

So the hippies from the land of eternal sunshine and bulletproof rainbows are completily pwning beardski derriere huh. Give it to them mia muca's.

[Adrian II]

Zero Canadian dead, but not much left of the Taliban...

My dear Goofball, there is nothing special about these turkey shoots. Even the small Dutch contingent kill dozens of Taliban in raids. Once they are located and smoked out by air support and artillery, they are no match for modern weaponry. It's a job that needs doing, but nothing to be proud of except maybe for 17-year-old male high school pupils in need of heroes to identify with.

In this sort of video, the fighting is portrayed as no more than a high-adrenaline chase - no real blood, no real victims, please! It sends a message that the opposition are no more than anonymous vermin in need of extermination and helps create a climate in which the torture of prisoners, wholesale bombing of villages and burning of corpses become acceptable.

[Goofball]

My dear Goofball, there is nothing special about these turkey shoots. Even the small Dutch contingent kill dozens of Taliban in raids. Once they are located and smoked out by air support and artillery, they are no match for modern weaponry. It's a job that needs doing, but nothing to be proud of except maybe for 17-year-old male high school pupils in need of heroes to identify with.

Adrian, I love ya (in a purely manly way, of course), but you really don't know what you're talking about in this case.

The main reason I was so happy with the results of this encounter, is because there were no Canadian casualties, which, especially when walking into a planned ambush, is the exception rather than the rule.

It may have been a turkey-shoot when the war started, but as one of the guys told us: we've already killed all of the dumb Taliban.

The ones who remain are smarter.

Command and control, intelligence gathering and use, planning, tactics, and propaganda capabilities of the enemy have improved exponentially over the past year.

In this sort of video, the fighting is portrayed as no more than a high-adrenaline chase - no real blood, no real victims, please!

You're right. Which is why I was glad to have had the opportunity to speak with these guys and have a little perspective put on the whole thing.

It sends a message that the opposition are no more than anonymous vermin in need of extermination and helps create a climate in which the torture of prisoners, wholesale bombing of villages and burning of corpses become acceptable.

Perhaps that's the message that you take away from it, and that's something that you need to own. That's not the message it sent to me.

It scared the hell out of me.

[BDC]

I'm sure if you compared Taleban dead to NATO dead, it would seem rather like a turkeyshoot.

[Adrian II]

The main reason I was so happy with the results of this encounter, is because there were no Canadian casualties, which, especially when walking into a planned ambush, is the exception rather than the rule. (..) That's not the message it sent to me. It scared the hell out of me.

Goofball, I apologise for misunderstanding you. Upon re-reading your comments, they don't sound gung-ho and simplistic.

Knowing you for what you are, I should have known better. I have seen many such videos from Afghanistan and Iraq offered on forums by dumb kids with recommendations like 'Wow, cool! Look at the guy's head exploding!

But you, my dear manly Goofball, are no dumb kid.

[Red Peasant]

The Taliban are totally out-gunned and haemorrhaging large numbers relative to NATO losses, yet they keep on coming. Brave? Fanatical? Probably both. They got within grenade range of the Paras and Gurkhas on several occasions, dying in large numbers and virtually depleting the defenders' ammunition. It almost came to bayonets I heard.
They are warriors and must have balls of steel. They deserve respect. NATO want to keep them at arm's length with superior firepower, and hopefully that will remain the case.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I read something a Sergent said:

"The Taliban a world-class at getting rounds down, if they could hit anything we'd be in trouble"

and

"Every man over there is a psycho with a gun and every older man, woman and child will hide the psycho with a gun."

The second one is paraphrased a bit but the first is pretty much what he said.

[Goofball]

The Taliban are totally out-gunned and haemorrhaging large numbers relative to NATO losses, yet they keep on coming. Brave? Fanatical? Probably both. They got within grenade range of the Paras and Gurkhas on several occasions, dying in large numbers and virtually depleting the defenders' ammunition. It almost came to bayonets I heard.
They are warriors and must have balls of steel. They deserve respect. NATO want to keep them at arm's length with superior firepower, and hopefully that will remain the case.

That pretty much sums up what we were told firsthand by the guys that were there.

Almost all engagements are taking place inside 75 meters, and often they are so close that the guns on the LAVS can't depress enough to fire at them.

[Watchman]

Gotta love those angry mountain tribe types. Still, it could be worse - they could be toting something that doesn't allow full auto. Then they'd have to start aiming...

Could be just my impression, but it really does seem like one of the main contributors to the relatively low losses Western forces suffer in the Third World is that nobody told the angry locals "spray and pray" is bloody stupid most of the time (some things I've read about Iraq suggest they were in fact taught more or less the exact opposite, back when the place still had something like an army...). If so, one would have to be thankful to the Soviets for having flooded the places with Kalashnikovs instead of for example SKS's...

[Pannonian]

Gotta love those angry mountain tribe types. Still, it could be worse - they could be toting something that doesn't allow full auto. Then they'd have to start aiming...

Could be just my impression, but it really does seem like one of the main contributors to the relatively low losses Western forces suffer in the Third World is that nobody told the angry locals "spray and pray" is bloody stupid most of the time (some things I've read about Iraq suggest they were in fact taught more or less the exact opposite, back when the place still had something like an army...). If so, one would have to be thankful to the Soviets for having flooded the places with Kalashnikovs instead of for example SKS's...

When the US first got itself involved with Afghanistan, they supplied the tribesmen with Lee Enfields and other rifles of similar vintage. The Afghans were absolutely deadly with them.

[Redleg]

When the US first got itself involved with Afghanistan, they supplied the tribesmen with Lee Enfields and other rifles of similar vintage. The Afghans were absolutely deadly with them.

Which was the point that Watchman was making.

[Beirut]

I'm not crazy about our guys and girls being over there with so little NATO support given that it's a NATO op, but at least our people have the support of us here at home.

Hope that means something to them.