Metal scraps said to be computing device

**Patriarch of Constantinople** · 12-02-2006, 23:56

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061201/...cient_computer

Well they discovered a "computer" in southern Greece. Your thoughts?

**CrossLOPER** · 12-03-2006, 00:01

That was the Antikathera clock, and it was found a century ago amongst a culture-rich ship wreck. It was identifed as a clock in 2003, I believe.

**Adrian II** · 12-03-2006, 01:08

Originally Posted by Hannibal99

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061201/...cient_computer

Well they discovered a "computer" in southern Greece. Your thoughts?

That this is old news, though still fascinating. Dating from the first century b.C. the mechanism seems to have been as detailed and accurate as an eighteenth century astronomical clock.

**Aenlic** · 12-03-2006, 04:02

It's been on TV multiple times. Most recently it featured prominently in the Greeks episode of Terry Jones' Barbarians series.

**Marshal Murat** · 12-03-2006, 04:44

Oh yea, old news. The title really takes away from the invention.

**BigTex** · 12-03-2006, 07:44

Originally Posted by Hannibal99

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061201/...cient_computer

Well they discovered a "computer" in southern Greece. Your thoughts?

Indeed old news. There's many more, more complex devices they've discovered also. Yes it is also a computer, crude and non electrical, but so were the ones that came out during hte 1800's. Makes you wonder what was lost when the library of Alexandria was destroyed. Some scientists put the amount of years that destruction set us back at, nearly at 2000 years.

**Aenlic** · 12-03-2006, 10:39

Not just when the library at Alexandria burned, either.

The floor of the Mediterranean must be littered with sunken ships containing all manner of things. At least one of Geiseric's ships containing the Vandal plunder of Rome in 455 sank on the way back to the capital at Saldae. Supposedly the treasure he plundered included some of the treasure from the Roman sack of the Temple in Jerusalem. No one knows what was on the ship which sank, just that one or more of the ships loaded with treasure did sink somewhere between Rome and Saldae.

**BDC** · 12-03-2006, 16:32

Damn those Romans...

Greeks can't have been too far away from an industrial revolution (of sorts) with this tech. Old news though.

**Watchman** · 12-03-2006, 20:53

Toys. Fancy prestige toys is what those were. The Greeks (or Hellenics anyway) were aware of the basic principle of the damn steam engine, and did they ever even try to use it for anything pragmatic ?
Nope.

The Romans at least made some practical use of applied hydraulics.

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure a complicated clockwork device that only shows the regular rotation of celestial objects does not fulfill the criteria of "computer", even early mechanical one. It can only do one single thing, after all; if it qualified, so would everything from the first primitive clocks Medieval monks developed to keep track of prayer hours (this is where ours come from) to the fancy mechanical toys excessively rich and powerful rulers liked to have around to impress visitors.

Computers may be serious idiot savants at the core, but at least they're a bit more versatile in their function.

**Kralizec** · 12-03-2006, 20:56

Originally Posted by Watchman

The Greeks (or Hellenics anyway) were aware of the basic principle of the damn steam engine, and did they ever even try to use it for anything pragmatic ?

Yup, the Hellenes at Alexandria even constructed one, albeit primitive. But the right conditions for a full blown industrial revolution just weren't there. Slave/serf labour is damn cheap, afterall.

**Aenlic** · 12-03-2006, 21:40

Originally Posted by Watchman

Toys. Fancy prestige toys is what those were. The Greeks (or Hellenics anyway) were aware of the basic principle of the damn steam engine, and did they ever even try to use it for anything pragmatic ?
Nope.

The Romans at least made some practical use of applied hydraulics.

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure a complicated clockwork device that only shows the regular rotation of celestial objects does not fulfill the criteria of "computer", even early mechanical one. It can only do one single thing, after all; if it qualified, so would everything from the first primitive clocks Medieval monks developed to keep track of prayer hours (this is where ours come from) to the fancy mechanical toys excessively rich and powerful rulers liked to have around to impress visitors.

Computers may be serious idiot savants at the core, but at least they're a bit more versatile in their function.

That's a valid point, Watchman, about applied use.

But you're wrong about the computer bit. The Antikithera device doesn't just show the regular rotation of celestial objects. It shows the positions of celestial objects as viewed from Earth. Such motion is in no way simple. The Moon displays a regular motion because it orbits the Earth. The Sun displays regular motion because the Earth orbits it. But the planets, the ones known at the time, display non-regular motion. This is because they orbit the Sun at differing velocities and at different distances. So at times the planets appear to move backwards in the sky. The mathematics of that are extremely complicated. Orbital mechanics isn't for the faint of heart. Aside from that, the Antikithera device can also add, subtract, multiply and divide. That makes it a computer, albeit an analog one.