Positives for Russia & Byzantium?

[Quillan]

Don't bother with the Varangian guard. They aren't nearly as good as their stats would indicate, even against other infantry. Their attack, while powerful, is incredibly slow. I've zoomed in and watched them in melee with dismounted feudal knights. The knights will get 2-3 swings for each one the axeman makes, and often while the knight attack won't kill a guardsman, it will stagger him and prevent the attack he was about to make. On the charge, they cause lots of casualties, but they are like knights, they can't handle a protracted melee fight. Use them to flank if you have them, they work well in that role, but 520 florins to recruit a unit that can only flank and can't attack mounted troops at all is a bit of a waste. I built 5-6 units in the Byzantine campaign, switched over to exclusively Byzantine infantry and dismounted lancers/latinkon, and never regretted it afterwards.

[Alexander: The hellenic empire]

Why one should play as Byzantium:

- Difficult (and therefore fun) faction to play with because of
1) Catholics (Venice) attacking you
2) Muslims constanlty declaring jihads at your capitol and not only
3) No annoying Pope or inquisitors
4) You are on your own (try to play of Very Hard/ Very Hard). Your only task is survival. And thats a lot for most players



One against all odds!!!

Have fun.

Variungian guard are great.

Archery is not bad, great at defending the castles you get in the Middle-East.

I play Byzantines online and I have won.

That's all.

Kataphrati can beat GOthic Cavalry. I've done it, next time I'll get a screenshot for you.

[lars573]

The Byz have a lot in common with the Selecids. Surrounded by enemies on the eastern fringe of the map. With the added bonus of being squarely in the crosshairs of Hun squared (Mongols and Timurids). The Russians are slow building but can become very rich and strong.

[Vanya]

GAH!

No self-respecting Russian wannabe would play as the Russians without taking at least a swig or two of icy vodka each turn. Do that, and playing as the Russians will be a lot of fun. GAH! Vanya surrounds Himself with polka dancers, vodka vats, loony pseudo-religious visionaries, and the plundered wives of His neighborhood just to add a little flavor to each turn. And when things don't go right? He fires His wet musket--soaked in a tub of vodka, no less--at a random passer-by for kicks.

A jolly good time, young chaps!

GAH!

[rc5924]

I think the Russians are great. A bit more boring than the catholic factions due to lack of crusades and popes missions, but I guess you dont have to deal with inquisitors (even though I never did) The units look cool, and theyre really actually very good units. Particularly the fact that they practically all shoot arrows, like the Dvor, they are excellent heavy infantry, and they shoot arrows, then there are the Dvor cavalry, same thing, and very well armoured. The Tsars guard look awesome, the Berdiche axemen tear ppl up, and the cossack musketeers you should have everything you need to recruit them by the time gunpowder comes up (just a huge stone wall in a city) and theyre alot better than arquebusiers, they can even fight in melee!

All in all a very good faction to play, am having a breeze dealing with my neighbors, and am pretty safe from attacks seeing as how im isolated in the corner of the map. The only thing is the lack of heavy charging cavalry (meaning no lances) but they still do well on the charge against infantry, and theyre charge isnt bugged!! But you will have to be ready for whichever of the Hordes decides to show up in your eastern border!

A cool faction, I was always looking forward to opening up the game by playing as the HRE first, then as the Russians. Not sure what Im going to do next, could be practically anyone, thinking about Hungary, Denmark, France, England or Byzantium.

[pansoiatr]

Apart from the vardariotai there is another good unit that the byzantines heve.The byzantine cavalry is a good all around unit that can turn a battle in your favor if u use it wisely,timely and in groups of 2-3 units together(they have descent armour and can stand in melee)

[SCRIBE]

Kataphrati can beat GOthic Cavalry. I've done it, next time I'll get a screenshot for you.

Please do

Also, in accordance with the other posts here, I think the Romans SHOULD get the chance to train gunpowder units. This IS a game of changing history (come on now, the Moors vs. Aztecs!?!), so most definitely the Romans should get gunpowder units in their roster. And from what I've been reading, a patch IS definitely needed for the Varangians and some of their troops (i.e. infantry) need to be beefed up. Are you telling me that an empire thats been around for way over 1000 years, cant get any good spearmen units!?!?!?!
THAT has to be changed.

The medieval aged Romans are an interesting faction to play. I hope CA doesnt ignore these calls of reforms, so the Romans don't carry this view of decadence around that most people seem to believe.

[Yossarian]

Regarding crusades being called on Constantinople, read the first post in this thread: Diplomacy thread

I'm playing as Byzantium and saw my relations with the Papacy drop from Reasonable to Terrible in a very short time while fighting the Hungarians and Venice. The sacking/extermination of catholic cities and castles combined with demanding ransom for prisoners didn't help I'm sure.

Now, following the very useful advice given in the thread linked above I've got the Papacy on a 100 florin per turn for 15 turns which has rapidly increased my standing with the Pope. I also gift them some map information and occasional 500 florins every now and then. In just four turns I'm up to Reasonable again! That should save me from any crusades right? I've also decided to bribe the HRE hoping that they will maintain our alliance so that I don't have to deal with them at the same time as the Mongols are going to start appearing...

[kercool]

byzantium units looks awful id rather play the turks or egypt.

[Alexander: The hellenic empire]

It is true, such an empire should have better armies.

Its a pity.

I hope CA do something about it.

Anyway can you please specify whats wrong with the Varingian guard because I have never got them yet. How can I get them?

And why are they not well done? Whats wrong with them?

[IPoseTheQuestionYouReturnTheAnswer]

Yeah, Byzantium is basically a watered down version of the Turks, only without muskets.

[Quillan]

Anyway can you please specify whats wrong with the Varingian guard because I have never got them yet. How can I get them?

And why are they not well done? Whats wrong with them?

You build them in the highest level barracks in a huge city. What's wrong with them is two things, a minor problem and a major problem. Both problems are related to their attack animations. The minor problem is that their attack animation is vvvvveeeerrrrrryyyyy sssssllllloooooooowwwwwwww. As a result, while they kill a lot of enemy infantry on contact during a charge, the enemy kill about 2-3:1 after the contact because they attack faster. The major problem is they don't attack mounted troops AT ALL after the initial charge. The unit leader model will attack, but the rest of the unit won't. They aren't the only one with these problems. Pretty much all 2-handed weapon units that don't use swords, pikes, voulges, swordstaves or halberds have this issue. I had a Varangian Guard unit vs a mongol horse archer unit while defending a bridge crossing in my Byzantine campaign. I lost 76 out of 90 in the unit, and killed zero...

[Horatius]

I tried playing as the Byzantines, and I thought they should have had an annoying Patriarch as a thorn in their side.

Here are three Emperors particularly attacked by the Church.

Leo the Wise got a warning of excommunication from the Patriarch for trying to remarry after his wife died.

Nicephorus Phocas got told point blank while on military campaign against Jihadist forces that he and his men still shed blood, and therefore could never be considered martyrs and that the best they could hope for is being forgiven, and when the campaigns ended and Nicephorus Phocas returned home to ask for the Church to change it's position he was refused, and shortly got killed by an angry pro-Church mob.

Constantine Paleologus while trying to organize a defence of Constantinople by luring Western Soldiers to defend the city by appeals to christian solidarity and offering to begin talks of reconciliation if the siege was won had to deal with Gennadios who caused some riots and very high unrest.

The full list is much longer, but as you can see the Patriarchate was a very annoying thing Byzantine Emperors had to deal with, and it would be fun if Byzantines had to deal with it in the game.

[absents]

I'll toss in a quick note about the Russians.

Personally, I'm having trouble seeing ANY weakness in them, apart from the starting position. They have good line infantry (Spearmen, granted they aren't spectacular, but still), good shock troops (Berdiche Axemen), good backbone infantry (D Druzhina, D Boyar Sons), quality ranged units (Crossbow Militia, Dismounted Dvor) and one of the best gunpowder infantry units in the game, Cossack Musketeers.

Combine solid infantry with a frightening selection of cavalry types (4 types of HA's, quality melee cav) and cannons (Basilisks), you have a devastating selection of troops. The only thing Russia lacks are Serpentines imo. Even the campaign starting position can be overcome by aggressively expaning to Scandinavia.

[Musashi]

I actually consider their starting position rather good, because if you expand fast enough you can end up with 6-8 territories without having to fight another faction. Being surrounded by rebels = good.

[Musashi]

I was just looking at stats in the custom battle setup, and I felt the need to point out that while many people have been talking about how Vardaratoi are immensely powerful, Russian Dvor are actually even scarier. The same defense, but one point better in melee attack and ranged attack.

And Russia has other good units to back them up, as opposed to Byzantium's lackluster lineup...

[sapi]

What's it take to get the Dvor though?

Vards are avaliable from very early in the game, and that's part of what makes them so good.