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Thread: Inquisator ruined my crusade!

  1. #1

    Default Inquisator ruined my crusade!

    So, Im playing as the French on H/H. Im only a few regions away from the 45 goal, so I recided to start a crusade and take Jerusalem. I get my armies together, about four full stacks, led by my king. Now, the king was a terrible guy, like six skulls of dread, and pretty low piety (1 or 2 at most) but he was still my king, and he was leading a crusade.

    SECOND TURN after I devote my king to the crusade (the crusade! that the pope called for!) I see that smarmy, hunchbacked snake in the black and white hobble over to my stacks. Naturally, he throws the book at my king, and naturally, my king dies.

    Why would an inquisator kill a man who was leading a crusade? Is there no redemption?

    So I bring up another general to take over the stack. Next turn, the inquisator kills him off too. With no other generals nearby, the game says my crusader soldiers are going to disperse to find somone who is capable of the job.

    1- I was the one that requested the crusade
    2- It was a French pope; I am french
    3- The king (and later the general) were on the crusade
    4- Good relations with the papal states

    Does anyone find the Inquisators fun? A basic, BASIC rule of game design is never to arbitrarily punish the player. As it stands, it feels like my kings and generals are just randomly disappearing from the game. Its not fun, which is why im complaining about it and not still playing the game.

  2. #2
    Loitering Senior Member AussieGiant's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inquisator ruined my crusade!

    What is your standing on the Pope-O-Metre?

    It seems that to avoid issues of "Burning" you need to keep it above 8 crosses.

    Did you do that?

  3. #3
    Member Member Morindin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inquisator ruined my crusade!

    I don't think Inquisitors are completely random.

    It is not JUST your standing with the pope. If you do something like fail a pope mission, sack a catholic city, or generally have a province with high heresey the pope will send an inquisitor to deal with you.

    You had probably done something to annoy the pope in some way.

    Now if you think about it, perhaps the Pope did not want a man who lacked such devotion leading a crusade.. the Pope felt threatened that the crusade was more for personal gain of the King in question and would not benefit Christianity. ;)

    I doubt the game is that smart, I think you just had absurd circumstances.
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  4. #4
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inquisator ruined my crusade!

    I think Inquisitors are fairly random in their actions:

    There was an inquisitor in HRE lands when I was British with max standing with the pope and my conquered french lands (they were excommed and I finished them off) were all maintained at 97%+ catholicism and had priests in them to keep it that way.

    Now I had a few diplomats, merchants and priests roaming my borders (but still on my lands) and the inquisitors decides to pay me a visit and starts killing agents (including priests) every single turn in my lands which have no or max 1% heresy in them. Then he delves ever deeper and starts denouncing my general too until I send in my assassin to tame him.

    So no, I don't think there is some pre-req to becoming a target for the inquisition. While inquisitors are often spawned in lands which have at least 5% catholicism and a lot of other religions and heresy (I had one pop up immediately after a successful crusade in antioch with priests around), once the inquisitor is spawned, he is running amok.

    Also, I spied on inquisitors for a while and noticed that there may be some bug with them:
    They get piety traits which mention something along the line of "escaped death narrowly a few times" which seem to aggregate by the inquisitor denouncing your characters! That seems a rather inadequate trait for such a purpose, no? (I have not mentioned this in the buglist above yet and posting restrictions of 1 post per 5 mins kind of prevent me)
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  5. #5
    Praeparet bellum Member Quillan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inquisator ruined my crusade!

    Inquisitors are quite random in their actions. Where they go is reasonable. In my entire current campaign as the Spanish, since I've kept a diplomat next to Rome handing over the vigorish every few turns, the only times I've had Inquisitors in my territory have been circumstances where heresy got too high. Either one of my priests turned heretic and started spreading it before I could get a better one there to denounce him, one wandered in from foreign lands, or I took a piece of territory where it was already pronounced. Even when they have been there, they've generally left me alone. However, ever now and then one gets a wild hair up his butt and decides to destroy one of my people. I keep a priest around anyone valuable when inquisitors are near. I've lost 2-3 bishops this game. They won't burn Cardinals, it appears.
    Age and treachery will defeat youth and skill every time.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Inquisator ruined my crusade!

    Quote Originally Posted by Morindin
    ...If you do something like fail a pope mission, sack a catholic city, or generally have a province with high heresey ...
    Hmm. All of the above. Oh, and I kinda killed off the pope before the current one. Thats how my guy got into power

    Quote Originally Posted by Morindin
    ...perhaps the Pope did not want a man who lacked such devotion leading a crusade...
    I think. . I will buy this explanation. While its kinda sad when a player has to make up a gameworld explanation for the games shortcomings, it does make it more. . involved? I mean, because that explanation does make. . . sense. .



    Quote Originally Posted by FactionHeir
    They get piety traits which mention something along the line of "escaped death narrowly a few times" which seem to aggregate by the inquisitor denouncing your characters!
    Yeah, this is why Im not too anxious to try and kill them off. I know with each failed attempt, they'll just grow stronger, and make it that much more impossibly to get rid of them =\

    Quote Originally Posted by Quillan
    I keep a priest around anyone valuable when inquisitors are near.
    Hmm. I noticed you can insert preists into armies. (I didnt play RTW, so I dont know how long this has been around) Maybe my generals would be safer if they were lugging along a preist or two?

    Also, thanks to everyone for accomodating my tired rant

  7. #7

    Default Re: Inquisator ruined my crusade!

    Actually, in the opposite side of the world CA sold a game called Inquisition: Total War. This game can only be played when one of us starts a game of M2:TW and the whole point of it is to protect and extend christianity.

    However sometimes the player who secretly connects to your computer to play the inquisition is a 15 year old team killer punk that likes to spend his time stopping crusades and killing generals at random.

  8. #8
    Amphibious Trebuchet Salesman Member Whacker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inquisator ruined my crusade!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zanshin
    Actually, in the opposite side of the world CA sold a game called Inquisition: Total War. This game can only be played when one of us starts a game of M2:TW and the whole point of it is to protect and extend christianity.

    However sometimes the player who secretly connects to your computer to play the inquisition is a 15 year old team killer punk that likes to spend his time stopping crusades and killing generals at random.
    I am reminded of two quotes, for absolutely no apparent reason:

    1. "hm their seems 2 be a porblem"

    2. "stop shooting yuo llama basytards!!1"



    I think at this point there's quite a few of us who agree (and to be fair, a few who don't) that Inquisitors are overpowered and/or possibly broken. This has been listed in the bugs thread that's been sent off to CA.

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    Member Member SirGrotius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inquisator ruined my crusade!

    The one thing I like about Inquisitors is how crazy everyone gets over them.

    I think they should still be powerful, maybe slightly less so, but I think there should be fewer of them.

    They focus on only one thing and that's piety. Relations, same nation, etc. does not matter in my experience.
    "No Plan survives Contact with the Enemy."

  10. #10
    Amphibious Trebuchet Salesman Member Whacker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inquisator ruined my crusade!

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGrotius
    The one thing I like about Inquisitors is how crazy everyone gets over them.

    I think they should still be powerful, maybe slightly less so, but I think there should be fewer of them.

    They focus on only one thing and that's piety. Relations, same nation, etc. does not matter in my experience.
    In general, I somewhat agree. Fewer of them yes. Piety as the primary factor yes, but not the ONLY factor. In other words, I'd like to see them focus ONLY on named characters, aka generals, *possibly* priests as well, and definitely focus on heretics and witches, since I haven't seen them do it in my gameplay I'm going to assume that they don't, if I'm wrong please ignore this. Piety should be the primary factor, BUT I'd also like to see relations with the pope play into this. Got a bit sick of losing diplomats, merchants, and others to inquisitors when they have no piety rating at all.

    Cheers!

    "Justice is the firm and continuous desire to render to everyone
    that which is his due."
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  11. #11
    The Puppet King Senior Member AggonyKing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inquisator ruined my crusade!

    I do agree that Inquisitors act weird. ON my french campain and Inquisitor tried to kill my french Bishop. :?

    Anyway, I usually avoid trouble with my generals by attaching a priest to go with them anywhere. It has worked a few times when an Inquisitors decides to take a hack at my generals.

    "Cuiusvis hominis est errare; nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare."
    Any man can make a mistake; only a fool keeps making the same one.

  12. #12
    Fidei Defensor Member metatron's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inquisator ruined my crusade!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zanshin
    Actually, in the opposite side of the world CA sold a game called Inquisition: Total War. This game can only be played when one of us starts a game of M2:TW and the whole point of it is to protect and extend christianity.

    However sometimes the player who secretly connects to your computer to play the inquisition is a 15 year old team killer punk that likes to spend his time stopping crusades and killing generals at random.
    ROFLMAO
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  13. #13
    Member Member Morindin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inquisator ruined my crusade!

    In 'theory' inquistors had the power to burn anyone they wished. They generally acted independant of the papacy (although later on the papacy 'recommended' inquisitors).
    They had ultimate say over who they went after, regardless of status.

    Now that is in theory. In reality they never really went above minor nobles. They mostly targetted people who preached heresy.

    There were political motivations for Inquisitions, the most famous of course being the Knights Templar. The French King was the main force behind it, due to his large debt to the Knights Templar, and managed to EVENTUALLY convince the Pope that the Knights performed homosexuality in their secret rituals (which was of course, untrue). He confiscated their lands and treasures. The English King on the other hand let most of the Templars there leave to Ireland and didn't confiscate their lands in the name of the crown.
    Joan of Arc was another famous victim of political inquisition, due to the fact she wore mens clothing (which were more comfortable to fight in). The full force of the English crown was behind her burning.

    So all in all Inquisitors 'in theory' could go after whom ever they pleased, but they rarely did. They mostly went after heretical preachers.
    If it was a matter of historical accuracy, I think they should be limited to Witches, Heretics, and low piety Priests. They should not really go after Kings, Royal Families, Merchants, or Generals.
    Perhaps inquisitors in your lands could cause extra unrest due if you are acting like a heretic it would look bad on your people, but they should leave your main family members alone.
    Last edited by Morindin; 12-04-2006 at 03:20.
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