Light Reading: New 0.8 MIC system explanation

[Teleklos Archelaou]

This post will attempt to explain the new MIC system changes that we have had to enact for our port to RTW 1.5. I may not be the best person to explain it, but I am someone who is interested in making sure folks understand things and so I've put this explanation together. Before I begin, while a lot of people have worked on this, I really need to thank blacksnail for his incredible work on it. It is mostly his idea as a way to solve our problems we faced after the initial 1.5 port had occurred. You're the man Zach!

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The new MIC system may be the biggest change in the whole mod. I don't know if I can do an explanation of the system justice, but it was forced upon us by the changes in 1.5. Basically 1.5 made all building conditionals for units cause instant CTD's in certain situations (i.e., viewing the building description). So we had to remove all government building requirements for units. But the system we have now still achieves pretty much the same results as before, it's just that now there are multiple barracks (MIC's) in the code (you will only ever be able to build two at any given time though). There was no other option though if we still wanted our recruitment to stay pretty much the same, and this works nicely.

Here is the theoretical explanation: instead of having each unit be restricted to a province and faction depending upon what type of government or reform level is found there, we switched to a system where we have a ton of MIC's and MIC levels, that are dependent upon governments and reforms. I did a very rough count and saw about 104 levels of barracks (MIC's) in the new EDB code. It is so complicated, and now our EDB.txt file is so large, that we don't do *any* altering of the recruitment code any longer by hand. It all has to be done by spreadsheet and a macro or something like that which creates the lines of text for EDB.txt. This reduces the chance for any inadvertent spelling errors or other silly mistakes in that part of the code that could cause problems or CTD's.

Now, that is the internal explanation - the immediate way you will come to see this change is when you start the game - you will not only have your regular factional MIC's (where all your faction's units come from), but you will have local MIC's also (where you train "foreign natives"). What type of MIC's you build is entirely dependent upon the type of government you build first (which is entirely dependent upon who your faction is and where the province in question is and what types of governments you could build there).

Let's take an easy example in Makedonia. If you are Makedonia and you capture Epeiros (Ambrakia), you can build govts 1-4. If you build a type1 govt (homeland), then you get all 5 levels of your Makedonian MIC's and one little level of your regional/local MIC's. If you had built a type4 govt (allied), then you get all 5 levels of the regional/local MIC's, and maybe one Makedonian MIC or maybe none at all. It varies by faction. Pretty simple actually. We have attempted to give variation to the faction and local MIC's too, so you can easily tell the difference visually. They have new icons right now. Look at the graphic below and you will see the regular MIC icons on the left, and the new local MIC icons on the right, with small tents surrounding it. The larger constructed images are the same right now, but they are in the process of being adjusted by O'Etairos (who has done all our constructed images for the MIC's) so that the local MIC's will have non-greek units being shown training, led by a greek captain. You'll notice the names are changed a little also:



One last thing: If you capture a province from a faction that is a lot like yours, you might find that the faction and the regional MIC's can immediately give you troops. But if you capture a province from a faction not very close to your own, you will have to start building those faction and regional MIC's from scratch. Just recruit lots of mercs till you get the place well under control. That's the best I can do describing the new system. We didn't necessarily want to change it, but that's the way the cookie crumbled when CA made those changes in the 1.5 patch and this is the only even remotely possible way we could get past the hurdle - by making the MIC's dependent upon governments and provinces, not the units themselves. The resulting system is absolutely as complex as before though, recruitment really doesn't change, you just have to build some additional MIC's (which in most situations slows things down more actually - not such a bad thing).

If folks have questions, we can try to answer them, but you don't really have to worry yourselves too much with the guts and such of this system. You can just build whatever MIC's are available to you in any given province after you select the government. You will only have two MIC types available at any given time: not too complex.

This was going to be released at the same time the mod was, but since the installer isn't ready yet, might as well get some of you more used to the new system now.

[Conqueror]

Very interesting, and a nice treat for the fans

One question though: since it appears that MICs are now faction-specific, is it possible to have both the native MICs (leftover by the previous owner of the freshly captured province) as well as having your own MICs on the side, or do you have to destroy the native MICs before you can build your own? If you have to destroy them, then how does this affect the AI?

[Steistas]

...
But if you capture a province from a faction not very close to your own, you will have to start building those faction and regional MIC's from scratch
...

Sounds great and I can imagine how complex the system is . It will be interesting to get into files and see the way you've done it :)

And I've got a question, maybe stupid question, but it's just me so don't wonder what I am carrying in my head

When you say close to your own faction, is it by the type (barbarian, greek, etc.) or distance?

[Markus_Aurelius]

Well im glad the mod is getting so close to release than, and thanks for the explanation, I kind of like the new system.

[Birka Viking]

Yeah this sounds very promising...

[Djurre]

I'm shure this is a real nice attempt at making shure people understand, but you lost me in the topic title. What is the MIC? this kind of stuff should be noob-proof ;)

[Dram]

I'm shure this is a real nice attempt at making shure people understand, but you lost me in the topic title. What is the MIC? this kind of stuff should be noob-proof ;)

in vanilla rtw the 'MIC' (military industrial complex) was basically the barracks/archery range/stable. in EB its combined in the MIC.

[-Praetor-]

in vanilla rtw the 'MIC' (military industrial complex) was basically the barracks/archery range/stable. in EB its combined in the MIC.

...which is a single building that fulfills those three roles.


Now, you may build 2 MIC per province. One for your conquering faction troops, and one for the conquered native troops. Thus, if you are say roman, and conquer Siracusae, one MIC will serve for training hastati, and the other MIC for training Hoplitai Iphicratides.

[Corinthian Hoplite]

But I wonder, if you build a type 4 gov, you still have to develop the native MICs until you get to level 5, right? Or, in a worse case, the first native MIC available to you will be of level 5?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

In a type3 gov, you don't get all 5 local MIC's (you do in a type4 though), but you do get more faction ones than in a type2 or a type1. I don't know the numbers for sure, but it's more like a type3 would get you about 4 local MIC's and 2 faction MIC's. Then a type2 gov would be something like 2 local MIC's and 3 or 4 faction MIC's. In general, on one side you get more of one than of the other, but as you move to the other side it flips.

When I said "close to your faction", it varies. Most of them are sort of like your culture group, but it breaks down further for some. Celts have their own, and Sweboz and Getai share one, and Lusotannan get their own. That sort of thing. Local MIC's are a little different, but not totally.

[blacksnail]

The general idea is that in Type 1 (homeland) governments you would be able to build up to level 5 of the "factional" MIC and few if any levels of the "regional" MIC, and in Type 4 governments that are far from your homeland you can build up to level 5 of the "regional" MIC and few if any of the "factional" MIC. Think of it as a sliding scale - the further away from your homeland, the less factional MIC levels you can build, while the closer to your homeland the less regional MIC levels you can build. This is a rule of thumb only, as it is possible to personalize a bit by faction.

For example, Romani start without the capability for regional MICs in their traditional homeland, but during later reforms are allowed to build a few levels of regional MICs there to recruit local auxilia.

[blacksnail]

The local MICs share a cultural group - so, all Western Greek factions share that local MIC. If Makedonians conquer an Epeirote province with a local MIC built by the Epeirotes, they should be able to recruit local units after a turn of restoring the MIC to effectiveness (ie, paying to repair it). However, they will need to build their own factional MIC after a government is in place if they wish to recruit factional troops.

[Conqueror]

But if for example I'm playing as Lusotannan and I happen to conquer egypt from the Ptolemies. then do I have to destroy the original MICs in Alexandria to be able to build my own?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

No, you don't have to destroy them. I would advise it though if you want a little cash and are sure it's of no use to you.

[Conqueror]

Oh that's a good idea, gotta get some loot

I was mostly thinking (as you wrote that sometimes the native MICs might enable limited recruitment) that it would be useful to keep the old ones until my own MICs have been completed.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

It doesn't have to be really complicated - if an MIC is there that gives you troops, feel free to use it. It just means someone very much like your people has been there and constructed barracks, armories, stables, etc. very much like you would - you can use them. If some MIC's there do nothing for you, and you can't upgrade them, then dump 'em.

[blacksnail]

I was mostly thinking (as you wrote that sometimes the native MICs might enable limited recruitment) that it would be useful to keep the old ones until my own MICs have been completed.

If they're not of the same cultural group, there's no reason to keep the MIC around. Lusotannan would be part of the "barbarian" group and Ptolemaioi part of the "eastern Greek" group. There wouldn't be any cross-over whatsoever between those two cultures, so you'd just destroy any Ptolemaioi factional and/or regional MICs for some easy cash and get to work on your government.

The two ways to know are to look at your building browser or your recruitment tab. Once you have a government in place, does the local MIC allow you to build level 1 of your regional MIC? Or, does it only allow you to improve it to level 2/3/4/5? When you right-click on the regional MIC, does it have nothing in it? Or, do you see recruitable units? If the latter in both cases, you share the same cultural group and can begin recruitment once you repair the regional MIC.

[Cybvep]

It's great that you have solved the problem. BTW, does it also mean that we will have no use of governments built by another factions?

[HopliteElite]

Sounds very interesting and not overly complicated at all, at least in my eyes. I'm looking forward to the new gameplay introduced by EB as compared to RtR and kudos to the EB team for a great mod (I've played before but it was a tad too incomplete for my tastes). I think 0.8 will offer a more complete and stable version of an already good mod and I look forward to the oppurtunity to play it.

[blacksnail]

It's great that you have solved the problem. BTW, does it also mean that we will have no use of governments built by another factions?

I would have really liked to have done this, but we had a hardcoded limit of 63 building complexes. Due to the new MIC system, nearly all the spare complexes we had were taken up. It is possible to simply repair a government building, but this actually bones you in regards to recruitment - say you repair a pre-existing Type I government far from your homeland. This limits you to a few or no levels of regional MIC. You can build up to five levels of factional MIC, but for most factions there would be few (if any) factional units available this far afield. Your recruitment is effectively stunted or non-existent if you do this.

However, if you'd destroyed the government and then built up a Type IV, you would typically be able to build five levels of regional MIC. It's kind of a no-brainer.

[Trithemius]

In a type4 gov, you don't get all 5 local MIC's, but you do get more faction ones than in a type5.

Type5? Is this a new government type?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Huh. I meant type3 I suppose. Sorry about that.

[Tuuvi]

I actually think I will like the new system better than the old ones. I hope someone releases a recruitement guide.

[Trithemius]

Huh. I meant type3 I suppose. Sorry about that.

No worries! I thought that perhaps type5 might have been the military occupation government you mentioned elsewhere.

This system sounds really good guys, and it also sounds like the building browser is good-to-go too. Can't wait (I just hope I finish my M2TW Turkish campaign before EB0 0.8 comes out)!

[Teleklos Archelaou]

I actually think I will like the new system better than the old ones. I hope someone releases a recruitement guide.

Oh, we have something a lot better than a text guide.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Is it possible to build a type4 government and build a high level of 'regional' MICs, then tear that down and build a type1 and build a high level of 'home' MICs? Thus giving you all the troops availible at that region with only one government type? Or am I not understanding something?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

No, you are correct. The system can be exploited that way. It's not some earth-shattering exploit though. If you do allow a province to be your "ally" for a number of years, and if you build up their local MIC's to the highest level, then you switch to a type1 gov (after destroying the type4), then you can build the highest faction MIC's, but it is unlikely any single province will give you both good faction MIC5 and local MIC5 troops. Your homelands will have some other peoples unlike your own there, but not a lot of them in the highest level local MIC's. Shouldn't be too concerned about this one.

[blacksnail]

Yeah, we don't even consider that an exploit due to the way the recruitment actually breaks down. If you have a level 5 regional MIC that recruits the same units at level 5 as it did at level 1 before your government-swap trick, the only difference is that you spent a lot of mnai on the regional MIC for no clear benefit. You could consider that a role-playing thing, as it won't give you any substantial edge (barring the occasional, rare exception).

[CountArach]

This is awesome guys! Definately awesome...

[nikolai1962]

Very clever system and seems to work well so far.