Diplomacy and keeping relations up

[maestro]

Well, led me see if i understood. To keep any aliance you got PAY tribute for that in every single turn.

No, you didn't understand. Not one bit. But then it takes a modicum of intelligence to work the M2TW diplomacy.

Put it this way: if you met a guy at a party who you got on with and decided they were a friend then their status with you is friendly. If you then never phone, write, text or talk to them again, that friendly feeling is gonna go away over time, right? Same applies with diplomacy. If you decide this guy and yourself have similar interests or goals and make a pact to work on a project together for the common good of each other then you have some kind of "alliance", but if you then don't ever phone, write, text or talk to them again or share any ideas or anything then that "alliance" is going to faulter.

You got GIVE gifts even if you are stronger... allright.

It's simple people-politics, it ain't rocket science. You don't have to pay some kind of tribute every turn to maintain an alliance - that would be broken diplomacy - yo ucompletely misunderstood my post, or failed to read it properly. it's a case of looking after your allies, not paying for their friendship. if they're broke then give them some money - it's called being friends. If they're struggling with a war, or lose a settlement then help them by attacking their enemies or even retake their settlement then gift it back to your allies. it's called being friends.

So this crapy diplamacy is working? Forgive me but its just ridiculous... thats a broken diplmacy made for fanboys.

If you want a game to have diplomacy whereby you can simply "make an alliance", to which the AI has to keep forever and then go round conquering the world and expect your allies to idly sit back and watch, knowing full well that their time will come then you're playing the wrong game. That would be broken diplomacy.

If you're struggling with the diplomacy then say so - there's plenty of peopple who can, and will help you but coming out with comments like "its just ridiculous... thats a broken diplmacy made for fanboys" makes you sound like a spoilt kid who doesn't want to play any more cause he didn't understand the rules first time. might I remind you that the game does, indeed, have a 16+ certificate.

[Willknott]

I agree that diplomacy in the game is very intelligent and intricate. The first campaign I played, I was busy getting used to the game and paid little or no attention to the relationship rating. Now I keep all my allied relationships at 'perfect' having learned to use that little gift box button next to the 'make offer' one. The AI mirrors what you would expect in real life. You have to support your allies in peace as well as war. Negotiating an 'attack faction' gift with an ally against one of their enemies does wonders for a relationship rating as it would in real life.

You have to get past the pride thing of apparent submission that is implied by thinking 'pay tribute'. It's just semantics. Think of it as yourself being a benefactor providing assistance to your allies. I'm not sure, but it would be logical for that to improve chivalry in the long run. Paying attention to the faction ranking graph and keeping your enemies generally the same as those of your allies, it is also apparent that providing allies with assistance is not against your own best interests as your group of enemies (declared or not) tend to decrease in ranking over time while your allies and yourself increase.

It is also well noted that a status of 'perfect' in relationship does not absolutely guarantee no hostilities. The famous quote,"walk softly and carry a big stick" comes to mind in discouraging hostile actions. I've had the French at a 'perfect' relationship status blockade one of my ports in an act of war. Despite this act of war, our relationship rating was still listed as 'outstanding'.

[kublikhan3]

No, you didn't understand. Not one bit. But then it takes a modicum of intelligence to work the M2TW diplomacy.

Put it this way: if you met a guy at a party who you got on with and decided they were a friend then their status with you is friendly. If you then never phone, write, text or talk to them again, that friendly feeling is gonna go away over time, right? Same applies with diplomacy. If you decide this guy and yourself have similar interests or goals and make a pact to work on a project together for the common good of each other then you have some kind of "alliance", but if you then don't ever phone, write, text or talk to them again or share any ideas or anything then that "alliance" is going to faulter.



It's simple people-politics, it ain't rocket science. You don't have to pay some kind of tribute every turn to maintain an alliance - that would be broken diplomacy - yo ucompletely misunderstood my post, or failed to read it properly. it's a case of looking after your allies, not paying for their friendship. if they're broke then give them some money - it's called being friends. If they're struggling with a war, or lose a settlement then help them by attacking their enemies or even retake their settlement then gift it back to your allies. it's called being friends.



If you want a game to have diplomacy whereby you can simply "make an alliance", to which the AI has to keep forever and then go round conquering the world and expect your allies to idly sit back and watch, knowing full well that their time will come then you're playing the wrong game. That would be broken diplomacy.

If you're struggling with the diplomacy then say so - there's plenty of peopple who can, and will help you but coming out with comments like "its just ridiculous... thats a broken diplmacy made for fanboys" makes you sound like a spoilt kid who doesn't want to play any more cause he didn't understand the rules first time. might I remind you that the game does, indeed, have a 16+ certificate.

I agree with eques. Having to send "gifts" or as you prefer to call it "being friends by giving them some money when they are broke" sounds alot more like tribute to me. How come I am the one who must always be the one giving a gift? This "maintaining you friendship" is all one sided effort on the player and is complete BS. I give them gifts while they try to bribe my cities?
I have played many games where the diplomacy is a more give and take affair, castles 2, moo2, etc. Since I refuse to pay tribute to my "allies", this is what I get instead:
1. All relations deteriotate to abysmal, even my allies and factions im not bording.
2. My ally(byzantine) is sieging constantinople. I send an army through his teritory to help him because he is outnumbered. Before I even get there, relations deteriotate to abysmal(they were already there, but hey if helping my ally take a huge city deteriotates relations that is just par for the course in this game)
3. I have a huge armies marauding though enemy territory. He is getting some major pain from me. So he makes a generous offer, I only have to pay him 40,000 gold for peace. Gee, let me think about that. Continue to sack your pathetic cities for 10k a piece, or pay your weakling faction 40k so u can raise an army against me. Decisions, decisions....
4. In another game I am Spain. France declares war on me. I attack the invading armies and pope threatens to excommunicate me. WTF? Am I supposed to just get rolled over by france here?

Just because you learned to manipulate this highly one-sided diplomacy system to your advantage doesn't mean this is a balanced diplomacy system.