Are Tercio pikemen really good?

**CrownOfSwords** · 12-05-2006, 03:43

They tend to be useless unless they are standing still when attacked.

**JeffBag** · 12-05-2006, 03:58

No, pikemen are very good for several reasons. Firstly, and perhaps most importantly, they are dirt cheap. Pike militia go for 150, Tercios a mere 350, which is even less than armoured sergeants. Secondly, in spearwall formation, even if they are actually spreaded-out/disrupted, they have uber stats or something. Yet another reason why looking at stats in this game is rather useless. Thirdly, on defense, they annihalate any cavalry charge with losses of up to 5 men. Fourthly, on offense, they are the fastest moving infantry unit, which is almost as fast as some units running speed or something, and with guard mode off they can still destroy charging cavalry even when moving, and destroy any opposing infantry with their swords, since swordsmen are advantaged against spears.

**ChewieTobbacca** · 12-05-2006, 06:02

Tercio Pikemen are extremely effective, especially for the Spanish. My Spanish armies have been unstoppable with a line of 4 units of Tercio Pikemen, 4 units of Sword and Buckler Men for flanks/rseerve melee, 4 units of Gendarmes for heavy cavalry, 4 Pavise/Mounted Crossbowmen, and 4 more units mixed. The key is to have the Tercio Pikemen hold the main brunt of the attack (keep them still to take a charge and even the heaviest of knights will fall in a charge easily against them) with Crossbows used accordingly (Mounted as skirmishers/harassers against melee heavy enemies, pavise crossbows against ranged heavy armies), Gendarmes to flank/fight enemy cavalry, and Sword and Buckler for flanking or covering the pikemen's flanks.

In fact, I use almost no knights at all as Spain (other than Gendarmes if you count them) other than lighter infantry, and it's been a winner against much heavily armored enemies (Catholics) as well as the lighter enemies (moors).

**Trithemius** · 12-05-2006, 09:00

Anyone had success with "classic" late period armies? (muskets and tercios/landsknechts).

**Musashi** · 12-05-2006, 20:06

Originally Posted by Trithemius

Anyone had success with "classic" late period armies? (muskets and tercios/landsknechts).

Much success actually. It works wonderfully. You need light cav to harry the enemy though.

**dopp** · 12-06-2006, 01:18

Originally Posted by Trithemius

Anyone had success with "classic" late period armies? (muskets and tercios/landsknechts).

Works very well. 4 musket 6 pikes, 4 heavy cavalry plus 2 generals to chase routers or counterattack. Only problem is that pikes need to be PERFECTLY stationary to work, whereas in RTW you could gradually advance to the attack with phalanxes. You can't 'push of pike' in this game at all. Might be a bug interfering or some special method to get it to work, because in several games my Tercios actually did advance with pikes lowered and stabbed properly (they were usually units that had beaten their enemies and were moving to help out neighboring units. The muskets will chew up most AI armies easily, even if they have more missile troops (maybe longbows can outshoot them), forcing the enemy to come to you. Another thing to consider is combined arms. If you hit a unit with muskets and it starts wavering, send in the gendarmes (when the cav bug is fixed). If you just continue firing, they may recover their nerve and charge you. Charge them first and drive them off. Sort of like the British guards at Waterloo, volleying the French imperial guards and then charging with bayonets to break their nerve.

**Dunc** · 12-06-2006, 02:16

What about when I go over to fight the Aztecs? Are tercios still going to do the trick in the jungle where their formation might be disrupted a little?

About sword and buckler men... what advantage do they have over dismounted chivalric knights? I recently got the ability to make sword/buckler men but I haven't tried them out yet.

I think I might make an experimental army made up of a line of tercios, plus two units of dismounted chivalric knights to cover the flanks where the tercios would be vulnerable. What do you recommend for the missile sections? Should I go for arquebusiers or just stick with pavise crossbowmen?

**dopp** · 12-06-2006, 02:23

Sword and bucklers are cheaper to maintain. Go for musketeers. Arquebusiers are okay but crossbowmen are adequate until you get muskets. You play one of the handful of factions that can field musketeers. Get them.

I haven't fought the Aztecs yet (win before world-is-round) but I read that pikes are good to fend off the endless waves of warriors.