No Jihad on Symrna! Bug or feature?

[Shahed]

Just noticed that you cannot Jihad on Symrna when it's rebel controlled on turn 1.

Also I don't get which cities you can and cannot Jihad.

The Jihad list in turn 1 gives you a list which I cannot see the logic of.
You can Jihad Lisbon but not Novogrod etc ? Although neither, in fact most, of the Jihad targets have not yet been discovered by you in game (playing Turks).

Does anyone have any explanation ?

Jihad against Symrna would be great on turn 1 as it would give you a castle on the Byzantine coast.

You can Jihad on Trabzon, a Byzantine target for turn 1, as is Symrna.

I don't get it. What am I missing ?

[absents]

I think M2TW is very Islamophobic, we all know Jihad means an inner spiritual struggle.

[Quillan]

If I had to guess, it's either a city that is important to the faction in some way (i.e. Holy) or something of which your side is aware. The Moors are in the Iberian peninsula, so they should be aware of Lisbon. The Turks have just recently conquered Iconium, their main power base is farther east, so they're aware of Trebizond but quite possibly not of Smyrna. It is, after all, an insignificant fortress. The only reason it's currently out of Byzantine control is the total collapse of the eastern empire after Manzikert.

[Shahed]

Points taken.

I wonder if that is really the case because the other Spanish settlements are not on the list.

Naturally the Seljuks had world maps, like everyone else. What would have made them more unaware of the rest of the world than anyone else, nothing. An invading army would be unwise to go into a campaign without maps. It did and does happen even today, but mostly happened/s in failed wars. The Seljuks did not fail. They surely had maps of the world and even more so of the Middle East.

Let's remember the Islamic civillisations of that day knew much more of the world than any other contemporary civillisation. The Seljuks had contact with the Mamluks as well, a contigent of which served in the Seljuk cavalry. It is depicted in a painting from the time, can't remember what's it's called but I've seen it in the Louvre. Let's remember also that the Seljuks had scout groups leading the way, followed by raiders who interdicted and disrupted supplies (among rape and pillage ofc), finally by the armies. The Ottomans later expanded on that raider doctrine. It is visible in the game with the inclusion of the Akinci unit.

Can't be the reason why Symrna is not Jihadable.
It's not a big deal but if it's another bug would be good to iron out, better still to have a workaround, in the interest of improving the game.

I've not found any workaround yet, so I just went straight for Symrna from turn 1 and beat the Byzantines to it. YAY ! Would have been nice to have the glory bonus though, that will have to wait till Antioch. Also went for Trabzon from turn 1, beat them to it as well. It's easier this way for the Turk player IMO than going South first. I always thought that the best strategy even in MTW, contrary to the Egy first theorem. This way you come directly into conflict with your prime enemy and the stage is instantly set for a gripping game. Of course I am simultaneously going for Antioch as well, from turn 1.

[IPoseTheQuestionYouReturnTheAnswer]

You can only Jihad against capital cities. That's the governing rule.

[Shahed]

Voila ! That must be it... a motte does not count as capital I suppose ?

All the capital cities are not on the Jihad list unless you are aware of their existence (in game) and they only show up if it's large thana motte or a village ?

Could that be it ?

EDIT: Nope i'm wrong there. Adana is a motte and it is Jihadable.

[Oaty]

Actually IMO islamic factions shouldnt be able to jihad until after a crusade is called. I think it has to with the fact that at some point in the game the province had to have a certain amount of islamic population for at least xxx amount of years.

I was at war with the turks and could not crusade against them until they took some orthodox cities(yes not catholic). You also have to remember that depending on the time, the orthodox church had some power with the pope. Also the pope being possibly more political than religous, can use this as an excuse.

So try sending an IMAM to the city you want to target and possibly it will become jihadable. Also if you call a jihad early do you really want the AI to sending armies your way?

[Longjohn4]

Jihads can only be declared against regions where the majority of the population is Islamic. If you want to jihad against somewhere else, send in the imams first to convert the population, then you'll have justification for launching a holy war to liberate good Muslims from the infidel yoke.

Also the holy men have their own list of the most important provinces to be attended to, and will only declare jihads against one of these.

[Bakma]

i'm not sure but i think you can't make jihads on rebel cities

[Nebuchadnezzar]

You can only call a Jihad on cities that have a hidden resource "Jihad" (description_regions.txt). I think its only 4 cities. Same goes for crusades.

[knoddy]

oooooooookkkkkkk lets straighten a few things out.
just to let yall know ive finished a moors campaign and used jihads like crazy cos there great.

first off - u can jihad just about any city u want. i led jihads on lisbon, toldeo, toluse, milan, burges. the list goes on and on. so the secret resource thing has no affect.

2nd - the province doenst have to have a majority of islam. it doenst need to have any islam. when i called the crusade on burges it was deep in english territory and was like 95% catholic and 5 % heretic.

3rd - they dont need to be capital cities. while capital cities do show up alot on the list of targets i have been able to target non capitals with jihads before.


from these three points imo, its pretty random targets. Generally tho, it offers capital cities, important cities, and cities that belong to heathen infidel enemies.
it is possible to lead a jihad on rebels, but y u cant lead a jihad on that particular town i dont know, there is a limit to the list tho, so if the game doesnt feel that settlement is of particular importance, then it prolly wont add it to the list.

neway thats my 2cents

Cheers Knoddy

[katank]

Knoddy is right on all counts. I've jihaded Constantinople before while it's 0% Islamic. There were definitely non-capital targets and secret resource thing also isn't the case.

Just keep up your warmongering and right before you capture a city, see if you can call a jihad on it. If so, join the jihad and hire up some cheapo Jihadi units. BTW, don't forget to stick every eligible army you have into the jihad. It makes them free upkeep (if only for a turn), allows hiring of cheapo jihad units everywhere, and also gets the generals good traits and troops experience when they succeed.

[knoddy]

hehe very true, i called a jihad on burges and made like 5 armies join, just so i could get the movement bonous up to england from iberia :D

[Trithemius]

I think M2TW is very Islamophobic, we all know Jihad means an inner spiritual struggle.

Jihad of the Sword then.

I actually always send my imams out beforehand (converting provinces makes it easier to take them over!), so you could always say that I try the Jihad of the Pen, and when it fails I use the Jihad of the Sword?

Also I don't get which cities you can and cannot Jihad.

I concur! I wanted to have a jihad against Sofia, but was unable to and found that pretty odd.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

It would be good if CA can clarify what conditions are required to qualify for a crusade or Jihad.

Crusade:
1) Excommunicated faction capitals
2) Settlements with the Hidden "Crusade" resource
3) ???

Jihad
1) Enemy (at war) faction capitals?
2) Settlements with the Hidden "Jihad" resource
3) Rebel settlements bordering Islamic factions?
4) ???

[Shahed]

Bit short on time, will reply to the rest in a bit, but in a nutshell....

YES ! We need a LOT more understanding of this game.

We don't know much of the mechanics at all. Part of it is discovery and mystery and calculations and all that, that is the fun part. The other part is trial and error, that is the not so fun part when you are playing a campaign, coz you want to play not test. :) :P

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I think I have worked this out!

You can call a Jihad where the hidden resource is and also

the cities where enemy family members/generals are governing. Same goes for calling crusades on excommunicated family members.

Since all factions are at war with rebels the cities with a general also qualify.


Can someone confirm or contradict this?