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  1. #1

    Default Why no titles?

    First off, I love the TW series, and have been playing MTW2 every day since I bought it.

    But for some reason aside from the newer graphics and the addition of a few things, I still feel like I am playing RTW.

    For one thing the most noticeable is lack of titles. To strengthen loyalty why cant my King/Sovereign mete out titles such as counts, barons, marquis, etc?

    With this lacking, their is no feeling of ownership, no ties to the land and strongholds. No Duke of York to protect his lands or participate in a crusade with his men at arms. To award a young noble a parcel of land and estates for his help defending England.

    Why does the family tree have to be that? Why not a family tree with a list of nobility? A king dies with no heirs, it now becomes possibly a civil war until 1 is crowned King.

    And where are my moats and drawbridges? Didnt they exist that much to have them?

    I dont know what can and cant be modded but I do wish they would have made it have a more medieval setting than what it currently has.

  2. #2
    Member Member Barry Fitzgerald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why no titles?

    I tend to agree with your sentiments..

    Have no idea why titles were dropped. I would like to see it back.

    Cannot pick faction heir...not good.

    I raised the moats issue a while back...this was a pretty important part of the era. Ignored completetly

    My thoughts at present are that CA just ran out of time and had to go with this release date. But as an end user it is a bit of a letdown. I enjoyed Rome a lot..with it's flaws..and you rightly say this feels like a kinda lazy way out..same thing different skin. All the improvements castles/cities choices..merchants etc..and others seem to have been offset with the issues above.

    I don't see a patch addressing these either.

    Being blunt...I am not blown away with this...I am even thinking of ebaying my copy, yes that bored already. With the previous titles I was dead hooked for months and longer. But this is a re-treat..and in some ways a downgrade from the previous version. Sure titles is a small minor point, but all these areas add up to the whole game.

    Great things were expected and this simply doesnt deliver. If the patched version is better..we shall see. But take note CA....time to get really creative, just hammering out updates of the same old thing might just scrape it this time, next time it most def will not.

  3. #3
    Discipulus et Magister Member Lord Condormanius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why no titles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Fitzgerald
    I raised the moats issue a while back...this was a pretty important part of the era. Ignored completetly
    Come on, at least I gave you the bit about dragons.

    On the notion of moats. I was fighting a battle near Bordeaux, close enough to the Castle that it was visible on the edge of the battle screen. When I saw it, I immediately thought of you. There it was, as plain as day...a moat!

    I couldn't believe my eyes.
    "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war."
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Why no titles?

    I think titles should be available to only a handful(the biggest) cities/castles available to your faction. It will help keep tabs of your generals and most definetly help the roleplay factor..

  5. #5
    Member Member CaptainSolo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why no titles?

    Must admit that was one thing i was hoping they would bring back in.I used to love checking accumen and command and deciding who was best suited as a general or administrator.Despite this i love this game to bits and it definetly feels more like MTW than RTW.

  6. #6
    Member Member Rothe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why no titles?

    I suppose it would require some hardcoded changes to add the title system.

    The way I am picturing it, the general would get a tab on his unit card to be appointed the lord/marquis/baron/whatever, when he is in the region and the title is still up for grabs.

    I think it would be funny also to have the titles that result from certain buildings, like "Constable" and so on, but I am not sure how the actual giving of the title would work in the game.
    Total war games played so far:
    STW, MTW, MTW:VI, RTW, MTW2, ETW, STW2

  7. #7
    Captain Obvious Member Maizel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why no titles?

    I think this could be moddable.

    I'm imaginating it something like this.

    Every city generates a title, as an object that is placed under a general's retinue. The first general entereing the city picks the title up, which in turn can be given to other, more suitable generals. If the general dies, it respawns in the city again.


    Im not sure if something like this could be modded, Since i don't know heck about it.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Why no titles?

    There is another (maybe simpler way). For example a castle is built, which now grants the title Baron. A drop down slider appears at the beginning of the turn with all the generals, here you can assign that title to any general. Wouldn't need micro management. The titles could rise according to the grade of the settlement.

    Anyway that's hardcoding. So it'll just have to be begged over and over and over and...
    "A Plátói szerelem olyan, mint kívülről nyalogatni a lekváros üveget!!!"

  9. #9
    Member Member d1ng0d0g's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why no titles?

    I think that the only way to do titles now is through ancillaries, allthough you can probably do some through traits.

    The trouble is the limit on Ancillaries (hardcoded I think)

    But the idea is codeable through events.

    Whenever you conquer a new territory your ruler gains an ancillary with the title for that territory.

    These ancillaries are transferable.

    Now, when a general dies, all you have to do is quickly recheck the possible titles (this could become a memory hog though) and give those titles held by the general this his heir (oldest son).

    Now, one thing I am definately going to change is how the heir functions now..

    If the son of my ruler becomes an adult, the current heir (usually his brother) should lose his heir status.

    If the King dies without an heir, then ... the title of King goes to the next of kin (so the Kings oldest brother, or his oldest nephew) and the other title holders will turn rebel.

    Actually by halving the number of factions... to 14, and creating 14 "rebel" factions one could truly increase the potential of this game.

    More Civil Wars ....

    Of course that depends on the possibillity of actually tracking bloodlines.

    Dingo

    I really like this idea. A rebel faction for each main faction to truly represent rebellions as there were plenty in the Middle Ages.

  10. #10
    BLEEEE! Senior Member Daveybaby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why no titles?

    I think the reason titles were dropped in RTW and M2TW is that there just arent enough generals to go around. In STW and MTW you could make any unit a general, so there was no real shortage.

    If there were to be enough generals in M2TW for the titles to go round, then you would have far too many generals in the game - you would be able to field full stack all general armies on a regular basis

    Maybe if they expanded the family system into a full nobility system including other families within your faction etc, you would have plenty of characters to choose from. In order to stop you from having too many generals you could have the player choose whether a character was going to be a general or an administrator - administrators would get experience, V&Vs & retinues related to city management, and generals would get ones related to combat. This would nicely mirror the way you have to choose between castles and cities.
    Last edited by Daveybaby; 12-05-2006 at 14:31.

  11. #11
    Wait, what? Member Aelwyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why no titles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daveybaby
    Maybe if they expanded the family system into a full nobility system including other families within your faction etc, you would have plenty of characters to choose from. In order to stop you from having too many generals you could have the player choose whether a character was going to be a general or an administrator - administrators would get experience, V&Vs & retinues related to city management, and generals would get ones related to combat. This would nicely mirror the way you have to choose between castles and cities.
    I think that's a rather nice idea, and would add good depth to the game. Its unfortunate that it will probably not happen.

  12. #12
    Member Member Aquitaine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why no titles?

    Or only some regions would have titles - perhaps only those regions with some historical tie to your faction, e.g. England would have a Duke of York, Duke of Edinborough, Prince of Wales, Prince of Eire, Prince of the Aquitaine, possibly a couple other French titles, but they wouldn't get the bonuses for foreign regions conquered.

    Perhaps all Catholic factions might have King of Jerusalem, or Defender of the Holy Sepulchre, and one or two new world titles. I think that would keep it manageable while still returning flavor to the game that is sorely missed (though I don't agree that it destroys the experience, I just really liked titles).

  13. #13
    BLEEEE! Senior Member Daveybaby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why no titles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aelwyn
    I think that's a rather nice idea, and would add good depth to the game. Its unfortunate that it will probably not happen.
    Oh, i dont expect it to, even in an expansion. Might be possible for the next TW game though.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Why no titles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daveybaby
    I think the reason titles were dropped in RTW and M2TW is that there just arent enough generals to go around. In STW and MTW you could make any unit a general, so there was no real shortage.

    If there were to be enough generals in M2TW for the titles to go round, then you would have far too many generals in the game - you would be able to field full stack all general armies on a regular basis

    Maybe if they expanded the family system into a full nobility system including other families within your faction etc, you would have plenty of characters to choose from. In order to stop you from having too many generals you could have the player choose whether a character was going to be a general or an administrator - administrators would get experience, V&Vs & retinues related to city management, and generals would get ones related to combat. This would nicely mirror the way you have to choose between castles and cities.
    I was thinking about this too, and while I know we would never see it, it would make the game seem more immersive.

    Or lets say you start with a king and some generals, as you give out nobility they have to retire to their estates and now are a minor ruler of that province and are restricted to that alone. Only a crusade would allow them to leave their area.

    I wonder tho if a reason for nobility being out was unit diversity. Even tho units can have mixed equipment and knights have different coat of arms on shields they still wear their nations colors.

    But even even the terms general and governor seem out of place here.

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