Overpowered peasants and the Spear attribute.

[Daveybaby]

Hmmm.... this 1.8 business - is that the last entry in the stat_pri table youre talking about? If so, it's only 1.8 for muslim peasants, 'normal' peasants and southern peasants still have 0.6

Or am i looking at the wrong thing here?

[BigTex]

Hmmm.... this 1.8 business - is that the last entry in the stat_pri table youre talking about? If so, it's only 1.8 for muslim peasants, 'normal' peasants and southern peasants still have 0.6

Or am i looking at the wrong thing here?

No your looking correctly. It seems to be working strangely in this version. As mentioned with billmen, lowering this stat from 1.33 to 1 increased the kills significantly, actually allowing them to completely decimate cavalry. Going on that, and ignoring that it could very well be that just the 1.33 factor is just bugged. Then having 1.8 should mean a horendusly bad kill rate. Maybe it's just that the peasants have an advantage over spears. Could very well be that the spear attribute gives them enough of a disadvantage to infantry units in melee that the peasants can slaughter them.

Would be simpler to just give the peasants low morale really to balance the thing out. That or give them the spear attribute but not the spear_4 or spear_8 attribute.

[JeffBag]

Skeleton compensation is no longer a measure of lethality, obviously, and I now believe it to be a value regarding the weapon range. Notice that muslim peasants with a value of 1.8 are equipped with mere daggers, while European peasants with pitchforks get a value of 0.6, just like any other spearmen?

[Lusted]

As mentioned with billmen, lowering this stat from 1.33 to 1 increased the kills significantly, actually allowing them to completely decimate cavalry. Going on that, and ignoring that it could very well be that just the 1.33 factor is just bugged.

If you look in the edu, all the bugged 2handed units(billmen, dismounted knights, varangians) have the 1.33 value, im changing it to 1 and seeing what effect it has.

[Kraxis]

If you look in the edu, all the bugged 2handed units(billmen, dismounted knights, varangians) have the 1.33 value, im changing it to 1 and seeing what effect it has.

Well, wouldn't 1.3 or 1.4 be better? I mean that would be closer to the original, while hopefully getting away from the buggy number.

In any case, I will give ALL peasants the spear attribute without the bonus. Or rather the light_spear attribute so that they don't get too much help against cavalry. I really don't like them fighting and winning against Militia.

But aren't the higher numbers better? Give me the unpacker so I can test this out... I want to tweak the game so that stats mean more.

[redmark]

I've tested the billmen against Border Cavalry (allowing the billmen first charge) with values of 0.1, 0.3, 0.5, 0.6, 0.9, 1.0, 1.2, 1.33... no difference. They do not attack after the initial charge (in 25+ tests, I ONCE saw ONE billman take a swing). The initial charge kills 7-10 cavalry, then the general (sword) may kill a few more.

Replacing the billman soldier model with (e.g.) militia halberd, and they attack just fine, even with the 1.33 value.

I don't think this is our solution, unfortunately.

[Kraxis]

that we need either CA to fix this (which I expect to be done with the patch), or have some modder apply the Billman skin to the Halberd model.

[Jambo]

Skeleton compensation is no longer a measure of lethality, obviously, and I now believe it to be a value regarding the weapon range. Notice that muslim peasants with a value of 1.8 are equipped with mere daggers, while European peasants with pitchforks get a value of 0.6, just like any other spearmen?

I think you're on to something. Looking at Highland Rabble who also bear daggers, they also have a value of 1.8.

Possibly the 1.33 value is bugged for Billmen. Like I said in another thread, what are the values for the other "bugged" 2-handed units and is there any correlation? This value for the axe-wielding troops seems to vary from 1 to 1.2 to 1.33. Is it only the troops types with 1.33 that don't work properly?