How to Attract Guilds

**Gustav II Adolf** · 12-07-2006, 17:00

What if a stands for action. We seem to get points for producing and building. Could it be som sort of action points? I get a lot of theologians guilds as spaninsh when converting muslim lands. Maybe we need to use what we build.

G

**Kraxis** · 12-07-2006, 20:58

Originally Posted by Gustav II Adolf

What if a stands for action. We seem to get points for producing and building. Could it be som sort of action points? I get a lot of theologians guilds as spaninsh when converting muslim lands. Maybe we need to use what we build.

G

I would have to second that thought...

I was 'inactively' using my priests. Then I began a hearty 'upgrade' programme for them, so I could dominate the College without the need to kill the other cardinals (my good old assassins got old). Suddenly I get three Theologian Guild offers in a row after some time spent converting lands (one of my cardinals and his priest sidekick are having a convertion-battle with four imams near Nicaea).

**dismal** · 12-07-2006, 21:14

Originally Posted by Kraxis

I would have to second that thought...

I was 'inactively' using my priests. Then I began a hearty 'upgrade' programme for them, so I could dominate the College without the need to kill the other cardinals (my good old assassins got old). Suddenly I get three Theologian Guild offers in a row after some time spent converting lands (one of my cardinals and his priest sidekick are having a convertion-battle with four imams near Nicaea).

It probably doesn't really matter so much whether "a" stands for "agent", "action" or "all". What matters is what the game does with the points. This story seems pretty consistent with the view that "a" points are awarded to all your settlements.

A cardinal promotion gets you 10 "a" points, as does a denouncement. Converting population itself does not appear to earn points, but it does get you Cardinals.

**Kraxis** · 12-07-2006, 21:29

Ahhh... Then it makes sense. I have gotten a whole load of cardinals lately. And some of them have been vicious killers of heretics (the agents not population... well them too). After I pruned the College down to four cadinals I haev almost exclusively been the one to repopulate it. I think I have 8 cardinals and there are three others.

**Eldon** · 12-08-2006, 06:14

A few beliefs (to be tested this weekend) from my perusal of the export_descr_guilds.txt file to add to the OP.

The structure of each entry in the file looks similar to below:
;------------------------------------------
Trigger 0004_Normalise ##TriggerName
WhenToTest SettlementTurnStart ##When triggered

Condition I_TurnNumber > 25 ##Condition to be met

Guild all s -1 ##(Category label) (guild type(or all/this keyword) (a,s,o) (#points)

So what i think happens is that the game keeps a running tally of how many points each settlement has 'earned' towards each and every guild type.
When you meet a condition points are assigned either to a=all settlements, s=settlement that triggered, o=all other settlements. I believe that's what the letters stand for as all triggers with 'a' points are for things like trade agreements and the actions of spies, assasins where it doesn't make sense to tie things to a particular settlement. As well, some triggers give both 's' + 'o' points, or, 'a' points, but you never see 'a'+'s' / 'a'+'o'.

As well, I believe the OP is wrong on the normalise value - you lose 1 point from every guild tally in every settlement every turn after turn #25, not every 25 turns.

Ok, so that's great info for the modders, but what does it mean for play, huh?

Well, explains why i always seem to get theives guild offers so soon - every spy mission adds to tally for every settlement, throw in a couple of brothel-line buildings, and spy trainings at a particular settlement and voila = theif guild offer. The assassin's/Hashashim guild works much the same, just a little slower as there's less/harder triggers.

So, use those spies, assassins, priests and merchants actively ie don't just let them sit there doing there passive thing, make them spy, kill (not sabotage??), burn and acquire.

Some guild-specific tips:
Explorer's guild - train merchants and send fleets to far away lands

Alchemists/Swordsmith's guild - train and build gunpowder/sword line stuff (units as listed in OP).

Might be obvious, but appears Woodsmens guild is England faction only based on this file alone let alone any hard-codedness that might exist (would be very difficult for any other faction to get, esp anything higher than 1st level).

Mason's guild - will take a while just build, build, build as per OP

Horse breeder's guild - a tricky one as is city-based guild but really requires the training of cavalry to level up (except I think muslim factions can easily train cavalry in cities). Tip: as spain produce Jinetes from the plaza del toro. Not sure about workarounds for other western factions (races maybe), if none exist then u'll just have to produce 100's of cavalry from your castles!!!!

Various Knight's Chapter Houses - Hospitaller's are easier to get than Templars. Hospitaller's (St Johns) have extra triggers to earn points - DoW on islamic factions (no need to actually fight battles!!!) and neighbour islamic factions.

Can't see any workaround atm for muslim factions re swordsmith guild catch-22 (have an idea but need to test it....)

Also, need to test - if reach points for two guilds at same time, what order are guilds allocated in? Do you get a guild offer the moment you satisfy the threshold, or does this just satisfy part i) of a further random chance condition?

**Zoltan** · 12-08-2006, 06:55

For the Horse Breeders guild for western factions, doesnt the merchant militia cav count towards getting it?

**Eldon** · 12-08-2006, 08:07

Originally Posted by Zoltan

For the Horse Breeders guild for western factions, doesnt the merchant militia cav count towards getting it?

Yes, it would.....but.....you can only have one guild per settlement, as far as I'm aware (certainly that's what the manual says).
This leads into my thinking on the possible workaround for the muslim factions re swordsmith's guilds. It should be possible to 'tech' up the required points with the assasin's guild making lots (34+ for the top level guild!!!) of hashashim, then destroy the assasin's guild and wait for the swordsmith guild to happen (or merchant's for HB guild and cav). Of course, you'd have to wear the GuildDestroyed costs ie -100 from that settlement for that guild (no matter as you've finished with it there anyway), but also -20 to all other settlements chances at the guild you just destroyed (though that's only one succesful assasination or 2 trained merchant's/acquisitions respectively). And, of course you have to beat the other factions to the top level guilds!

I don't think it would be too hard to add a trigger to the file for an appropriate muslim unit so that they can get the guild more easily.

**Daveybaby** · 12-08-2006, 10:19

Originally Posted by Eldon

So what i think happens is that the game keeps a running tally of how many points each settlement has 'earned' towards each and every guild type.

Yeah, i think that's pretty much been the assumption all the way through.

When you meet a condition points are assigned either to a=all settlements, s=settlement that triggered, o=all other settlements. I believe that's what the letters stand for as all triggers with 'a' points are for things like trade agreements and the actions of spies, assasins where it doesn't make sense to tie things to a particular settlement. As well, some triggers give both 's' + 'o' points, or, 'a' points, but you never see 'a'+'s' / 'a'+'o'.

Good stuff, that makes an awful lot more sense than my bodged interpretation of it. Will edit the OP to make more sense in that case

As well, I believe the OP is wrong on the normalise value - you lose 1 point from every guild tally in every settlement every turn after turn #25, not every 25 turns.

Hmmm... i'd figured that 1 point every turn was a bit harsh, and would probably wipe out any gains far too quickly (i'd figured I_TurnNumber was an Increment in turns since the last time the event was triggered), and you'd have to gain another 200 points over the course of the game in order to get those guild HQs.

But having said that, 1 point every 25 turns is pretty low - only 9 points throughout a normal speed game - so youre probably correct.

**dopp** · 12-08-2006, 12:30

Just convert one of your castles to a city and you'll get a horse breeders' guild. I got tired of waiting for swordsmith in Toledo and switched, got a horse breeder next turn.

My other post got eaten somehow so I'll post again on how to tweak so that Muslims get swordsmith. Do a search in the guild file for "TrainedUnitCategory". You will see a trigger that gives horse breeder points for building cavalry. Since cavalry get bonuses from swordsmiths and you can't have a horse breeder in a castle (or a swordsmith in a city), It stands to reason that building cavalry could also contribute towards swordsmithing (another point is that cav get shiny lances when they upgrade while swords mostly don't). Change or copy the trigger and make it give guild points for swordsmith too.