What happened to my beloved Swiss

**Kraxis** · 12-08-2006, 00:40

Yes... but that just made sure that you didn't just throw them in unless it was crucial. They were generals first, fighters second.
Besides you only needed the lowest of the knightly buildings to retrain them, you got them even before Feudal Knights. So basically any place had them very fast. Or you could get them very fast...

**Frantz** · 12-08-2006, 00:43

I think the swiss arent in the game because they will be the Add-on

**CrownOfSwords** · 12-08-2006, 01:15

lol i like how my swiss discussion turned into stuff about bodyguards, i totally agree though i hate how all the factions have like the same bodyguards essentially its bs. I would also like the damned general to stay in the back of his guards or atleast make them much harder to kill gets irritating seeing my general die charging. Im going to try out the portugal suggestion I havent started a campaign as them yet. But yeah I dont really care about the accuracy with the swiss thing, make them start as a vassal to the HRE or something i just wanna play my swiss. And yes i am swiss hence the obsession.

**Kraxis** · 12-08-2006, 01:20

How about not using the general in a frontline service against units that can potentially kill him? The last thing we need right now are stronger bodyguards. They are already 2 HP and stronger than most heavy cavalry statswise...

I tend to build up my generals, letting other units weaken teh enemy or let them deal with the dangeorus enemies, while my general deal with archers, peasants (can be dangerous though) and the like. Then when he has gotten a few good virtues to his HP or morale, I begin taking on stronger enemies, though never units that has the potential to defeat the general quickly. That means spears in general, unless they are marching.

**CrownOfSwords** · 12-08-2006, 01:24

No but ive seen my general die in some ridiculous instances like charging trebuchet crewsmen and just watching the animation of him flying off the horse give me a break. Im sick of these over powered crewsmen as well those little peasant bastards should be fleeing like crazy before any knights even charged them.

**Musashi** · 12-08-2006, 05:57

It is rather irritating when your General is the one who goes down due to random chance on a successful charge into a weak unit.

Of course this happens a lot less once your General starts getting the "scarred" traits...

Either way though I want my Boyars back!

**Kraxis** · 12-08-2006, 07:11

Well the general starts out with several more HP than his bodyguards, it used to be 4, but now I don't know, could be less.

In any case I was surprised in a custom battle that my knights seemed to lance down their own general (in the same unit), since he died and the enemy units were nowhere near enough to do it.
So chances are that the enemy units simply can't suck all those HP out of the general. 2 HP they might, but not 4 on the very first charge.

But in any case... he is the general, do try to take care of him.

**Kobal2fr** · 12-08-2006, 02:18

Originally Posted by Kraxis

How about not using the general in a frontline service against units that can potentially kill him? The last thing we need right now are stronger bodyguards. They are already 2 HP and stronger than most heavy cavalry statswise...

I tend to build up my generals, letting other units weaken teh enemy or let them deal with the dangeorus enemies, while my general deal with archers, peasants (can be dangerous though) and the like. Then when he has gotten a few good virtues to his HP or morale, I begin taking on stronger enemies, though never units that has the potential to defeat the general quickly. That means spears in general, unless they are marching.

My problem is not really about generals surviving. I know how to keep my generals alive. The problem is more along the lines of generals being very, very powerful attack units on top of being morale and stat boosters.

Half of the original Jedi general problem lied there : the AI has an ultimate morale, powreful attack unit in its roster, so it uses it offensively. That's it. Either the general somehow died, and the whole AI army collapsed, or the general just *wouldn't die* and killed your whole army all by himself.

CA has, overtime and overgames, tried to get around this by making generals more hardy, and tweak/trick the AI into not using them as much, but the point is : heavy cav generals were über units. They were tanks. They were very, very hard to kill, they never ever fled, and they killed everything very, very quickly. No wonder the AI charged them head-on. The AI didn't factor in the fact that when it lost him, everything was lost.

That's why they toned down the general's death-effect in M2, why they upped overall morale and why they turned down the effect of command stars too : it's their solution to the suicidal general issue - make him matter less. Make him just a single, unique über unit.

That's the way I see it anyway.

I wish generals boosted troops like they used to do, and be just as very, very hard to kill as they are right now, but didn't kill anything, ever. -10 attack, on foot, peasant-scratching-his-arse animation looping. Probably not true to history, but making sense and being balanced gameplay wise. AND it would help with the suicidal AI general thing as well.