What happened to my beloved Swiss

**Kobal2fr** · 12-08-2006, 02:18

Originally Posted by Kraxis

How about not using the general in a frontline service against units that can potentially kill him? The last thing we need right now are stronger bodyguards. They are already 2 HP and stronger than most heavy cavalry statswise...

I tend to build up my generals, letting other units weaken teh enemy or let them deal with the dangeorus enemies, while my general deal with archers, peasants (can be dangerous though) and the like. Then when he has gotten a few good virtues to his HP or morale, I begin taking on stronger enemies, though never units that has the potential to defeat the general quickly. That means spears in general, unless they are marching.

My problem is not really about generals surviving. I know how to keep my generals alive. The problem is more along the lines of generals being very, very powerful attack units on top of being morale and stat boosters.

Half of the original Jedi general problem lied there : the AI has an ultimate morale, powreful attack unit in its roster, so it uses it offensively. That's it. Either the general somehow died, and the whole AI army collapsed, or the general just *wouldn't die* and killed your whole army all by himself.

CA has, overtime and overgames, tried to get around this by making generals more hardy, and tweak/trick the AI into not using them as much, but the point is : heavy cav generals were über units. They were tanks. They were very, very hard to kill, they never ever fled, and they killed everything very, very quickly. No wonder the AI charged them head-on. The AI didn't factor in the fact that when it lost him, everything was lost.

That's why they toned down the general's death-effect in M2, why they upped overall morale and why they turned down the effect of command stars too : it's their solution to the suicidal general issue - make him matter less. Make him just a single, unique über unit.

That's the way I see it anyway.

I wish generals boosted troops like they used to do, and be just as very, very hard to kill as they are right now, but didn't kill anything, ever. -10 attack, on foot, peasant-scratching-his-arse animation looping. Probably not true to history, but making sense and being balanced gameplay wise. AND it would help with the suicidal AI general thing as well.

**Musashi** · 12-08-2006, 05:57

It is rather irritating when your General is the one who goes down due to random chance on a successful charge into a weak unit.

Of course this happens a lot less once your General starts getting the "scarred" traits...

Either way though I want my Boyars back!

**Kraxis** · 12-08-2006, 07:11

Well the general starts out with several more HP than his bodyguards, it used to be 4, but now I don't know, could be less.

In any case I was surprised in a custom battle that my knights seemed to lance down their own general (in the same unit), since he died and the enemy units were nowhere near enough to do it.
So chances are that the enemy units simply can't suck all those HP out of the general. 2 HP they might, but not 4 on the very first charge.

But in any case... he is the general, do try to take care of him.

**Musashi** · 12-08-2006, 07:26

Playing my French campaign I lost 3 family members in quick succession, all from the same thing, they died on their first charge, at the moment of impact, on successful charges into the flanks of low quality units.

So it is a problem.

**Kraxis** · 12-08-2006, 07:37

I have yet to experience such a thing... Not a single time.

I have only lost generals and family members through protracted melee, or unfortunate circumstances. Never through a successful charge, and I have charged Armoured Spearmen, DFKs and other tough nuts head on. In fact one general I tried to kill off managed to kill not only a unit of DFK head on, but also a unit of Armoured Spearmen. And this was before he got any traits that helped him.

I use my generals in all my battles more or less, and they generally suffer quite a few casualties in all.

So I would just say that you have been hugely unfortunate.

Did you check them out prior to battle? If they were from the same branch of the family they might have suffered from the same 'illness', which gave a hit to hitpoints. Also ifthey weren't the commanding general, they don't get the general's bonus to HP, and as such become just as fragile as their bodyguards (which isn't terribly fragile but more fragile than otherwise).

**dopp** · 12-08-2006, 13:13

If you keep your general out of combat or if you only use him to attack the enemy general then he gains chivalry traits. Out of combat... sounds like something you do with a healer to rez ded peeps after a wipe.

**Musashi** · 12-08-2006, 16:31

Originally Posted by Kraxis

I have yet to experience such a thing... Not a single time.

I have only lost generals and family members through protracted melee, or unfortunate circumstances. Never through a successful charge, and I have charged Armoured Spearmen, DFKs and other tough nuts head on. In fact one general I tried to kill off managed to kill not only a unit of DFK head on, but also a unit of Armoured Spearmen. And this was before he got any traits that helped him.

I use my generals in all my battles more or less, and they generally suffer quite a few casualties in all.

So I would just say that you have been hugely unfortunate.

Did you check them out prior to battle? If they were from the same branch of the family they might have suffered from the same 'illness', which gave a hit to hitpoints. Also ifthey weren't the commanding general, they don't get the general's bonus to HP, and as such become just as fragile as their bodyguards (which isn't terribly fragile but more fragile than otherwise).

They were France's starting generals... I lost them all in separate battles... Every one of them was charging crossbowmen of all things. From the flank!

**Kraxis** · 12-08-2006, 16:37

Then I can only say that it was a series of flukes... Or it could be that they were in fact hit by bolts and weakened enough.

Also mind the custom battle incident I mentioned. When you charge the flank of a unit, the general is supposed to get on the far side, and not really get involved as it is generally only the central men that do. At times however the cavalry will converge on the center and as such he could have been lanced by his own men (which seems to be possible as per my custom battle).

Also, I have also charged units in the flank, and some of the knights that then took the long way down the rear and front sometimes just died because as they went past the enemy troops would each get a hit in on them, and that seems to be what happened in your case.

**Musashi** · 12-08-2006, 17:00

Well, I actually moved them into position, allowed them to form up, and then single clicked to attack, and got a perfectly formed charge...

The crossbowmen weren't even firing at them, they were firing at my crossbows and spearmen...