Those Mongols! :@

[Burakius]

DAMN THEM! THEy are TOO STRONG!

its like this: Im Turks. Im getting attacked from all sides. (thats another topic baby. No one seems to want to ally me. Why is it in this game that u always stand alone. even when having allies they dont even help). Then all of a sudden mongols come with their über armies. No chance to stop them. Im totally getting crumbled by spanish ( yes spanish have constantinople...) byzantines, egyptians and mongols..

HOW would egyptians attack me whilst they are in deep trouble too. im muslim country they are too., they wont even help me..


I play on hard/hard. these mongols.. too strong period. it destroys whole gameplay.. so now im of to play with the english.. having a save sea between main land.

[Napoleon Blownapart]

Yeah, the Khan comes in full force this game and pulls no punches. In the field his horse archers will rip your army apart, but his infantry are bellow par so in sieges you have the advantage.

[Burakius]

Yeah, the Khan comes in full force this game and pulls no punches. In the field his horse archers will rip your army apart, but his infantry are bellow par so in sieges you have the advantage.

problem is... my pc gets pwned with sieges.. ( too much lag)

( my pc seems to flip nowadays when I want to play on field.. hmm maybe I did something wrong with my pc last night becaus for that it worked perfectly :( )

[Midnight]

Well, they are considered the worst disaster ever to fall upon the Islamic world...

Can Siphais (well armoured horse archer - I might have the wrong name) match them in the open? If not, you're probably going to have to retreat to your castles.

[Burakius]

Well, they are considered the worst disaster ever to fall upon the Islamic world...

Can Siphais (well armoured horse archer - I might have the wrong name) match them in the open? If not, you're probably going to have to retreat to your castles.

but like they became Islamic around 1300? so.. :(

even in the game they are Islamic..

also there is NO and I repeat NO way to have ceasefire.. or alliance :(

[Trithemius]

Yeah, the Khan comes in full force this game and pulls no punches. In the field his horse archers will rip your army apart, but his infantry are bellow par so in sieges you have the advantage.

I find that the Mongols just hurl three stacks worth of lancers through any gaps they can make in city walls and kill all my garrisons. I've had good luck defending castles and some surprisingly good luck in open battles when I can pick the conditions.

[Trithemius]

but like they became Islamic around 1300? so.. :(

even in the game they are Islamic..

also there is NO and I repeat NO way to have ceasefire.. or alliance :(

I mentioned in another thread that I had a turn or two where the Mongols were around, but not at war with me. I hoped to get a diplomat to them and give them Yerevan in exchange for an alliance, but I did not get him there in time. If you are the Turks, and are prepared, you might be able to make use of this perhaps?

[GrandInquisitor]

The player will lose a city/cities to the Mongols. If they breach your walls, you die. Spears are completely rundown by their cavalry. The only assault I've beaten was at Antioch as the Turks (with those insane catapult towers), when my full garrison of spears and Halberdiers killed the general. They had another army, but it never tried to round the city to the breach, so I was spared. I'm not sure about anyone else, but my most heavily fortified territories weren't a match.

And to answer another question, don't give them anything -- territories or an alliance. In my experience, they don't care about gifts. They'll attack you -- the player -- full-force regardless. Make them bleed for their conquests as much as you can (and it might not be much).

[Niccolo Machiavelli]

I didn't consider them as such a threat when playing as poland and HRE, as they headed for antioch and never really showed up in europe (on h/vh). When playing as Milan on m/vh, I held antioch by the time they arrived and I had to fight my way out of it, abandoning the city (my heir was there) - I then retreated to jerusalem, antioch became a full stack rebel city after I fought my way out of the mongol siege and destroyed all destrcuctible buildings and leaving it without any garrison. The mongols lost any interest in it, then attacked the turks for a while without taking any province from them, then turned on egypt, after which they decided to take jerusalem - I had musketeers and gun towers in between and wasted them, since they had no guns or catapults and their mounted units can't climb ladders or siege towers.
When playing HRE, I took them on after I had Reiters - and had obviously become decadent in turkey - no real challenge.

Briefly, I've only encountered the mongols as morons clowning about on both, the strat and the battlemap, but this might be due to the factions I've played and some bugs.

[spmetla]

The player will lose a city/cities to the Mongols. If they breach your walls, you die. Spears are completely rundown by their cavalry. The only assault I've beaten was at Antioch as the Turks (with those insane catapult towers), when my full garrison of spears and Halberdiers killed the general. They had another army, but it never tried to round the city to the breach, so I was spared. I'm not sure about anyone else, but my most heavily fortified territories weren't a match.

And to answer another question, don't give them anything -- territories or an alliance. In my experience, they don't care about gifts. They'll attack you -- the player -- full-force regardless. Make them bleed for their conquests as much as you can (and it might not be much).

Antioch's also the only city they took from me. I held off their first assault, needed a mix of spears and byzantine infantry along with lots of trebizond archers on the walls. They also had a second army on the other side of the city but it didn't help them. I'm more irritated with the ease my reinforced gate is bashed in then anything.

They took Antioch the second time though. I'm keeping them undercontrol by having large armies hold the bridges around antioch right now to keep them contained or at least delay a break out while I build up more forces. I'm also at war with the Egyptians and Turks but I've got both undercontrol, I've got one expeditionary force holding Alexandria and threatening Cairo while I'm trying to spare some forces so I can take Mosul.

I'm actually a bit disappointed with the Mongols. I didn't prep for them, the armies I had were for fighting the Turks and Egyptians and although they took Antioch I'm keeping them fenced in rather well. And why do they only appear on one side of the Caspian sea? They should show up in both places, I was sort of hoping that they'd disrupt the massive Rus/Polish empires to the North of Me. It'll be sad if I really wipe the Mongols off the map in a just a few more turns.

[Decker]

Do the mongols only attack castles and cities, or do they also go for forts?

[Burns]

They attack forts as well. I know this because I fought a sally against them in one instance. Lost 87% of my troops but held the ground.

[Decker]

Do they go out of their way to attack a fort if it is near a city or in their vicinity? If they do, then you guys should build several fort around the areas where they will most likely appear from, and let them fight it out there while you prepare you cities and castles and armies once they get by. I haven't been able to even get close to the Mongols in any of my campaigns to even fight them on the field(except in custom battles) so I can't tell you all if it is tried and true, but it is a theory that could go help in comtaining the golden horde. Now about those Inquisitors

[supadodo]

Ok I got an issue with these f***tards. I'm playin Turks on m/m campaign and 1 year per turn. SO these guys show up near Baghdad which is by now a huge city with ballista towers. Mosul is also a citadel with similar defenses.They have 5 generals am I right? So like the morons they are they attack Mosul instead which has a full garrison of Ottoman inf, turk archers, dismounted spahis and trebuchets. I sally out and kill their general with a rock but the battle ends in a draw. So the next turn they break seige and move west ignoring Edessa and Allepo. They seige Antioch and lose another general to ballista towers. Then I use assasin to kill another one leaving two. I gather a full stack of ottoman inf, dismounted spahis, trebs and saracens lead by a crap general and put them on a river ford. They attack with both generals leading their full stacks. To put things short. They massacred me but not without losing their king and heir.In the end my army is defeated but they have no generals left. I'm guessing game over dudes but the army still remains instead of disbanding. The next turn.*POOF* three new general sprout and the Mongols survive. WTF shoudnt a faction die when all its generals are killed?

[Quillan]

They have 11 generals, not 5. They arrive in 3 waves, first wave is 3 stacks, second wave is 4 stacks, third wave is 4 stacks, all led by generals. Then once they settle down, they follow the normal rules. If you see Kuo Kan, he's the last stack to enter in the final wave. It's there in the campaign_script.txt file if you're interested in looking, but it's spoilerish too so I won't list the specifics.

[Valdincan]

Spears are useless against them, they hardly make a dent in their heavy cavalry and they get shot down before the reach the missile cavalry. Go for missiles and missile cavalry mixed with heavy cavalry, basically just copy-cat them. This will make it a little easier, but still be prepared for a hell of a fight and never auto-manage battles while fighting them.

[supadodo]

OMG so the one I got was only the first? I mean first there was that small scouting army at Yerevan and then another one appeared in baghdad a turn later. Do both of these count as the 1st wave? If so will the next 2 wave show up at the same place and when? I dont mind spoilers btw.

Oh and Valdincan, spears seem to work only during bridge battles. I got my saracen militia to form a schitrom at a bridge and some dismounted sipahis to support their back. They kill quite alot of horseys and suffer alot of casualties but still manage to hold their ground. I recommend using trebs to hurl cows but make sure dont hit your own men or you're screwed( I learned this the hard way )

[Decker]

I don't think that there is really a time table as mentioned in other threads around here. From what I can tell... the mongols seem to show up in about 3 main places. I can't pronounce the names but I believe one area is located by the Pole and Russians. Another is Baghdad and one other place that I can't really remember. From what I can tell by the other guys' tactics and strategies, it is probably best to go with the flow and meet the horde as it comes and let them kill themselves against your mighty castles. This is all from hear-say on other threads as I have you to fight them let alone find them, I guess being stuck on an Island with no real enemies does have its pluses!

[Trithemius]

I found that dismounted sipahi lancers were useless against a horde (obviously!) of Mongol lancers pouring in my bashed-in gate. Saracen Militia crumple like beer cans, even when deployed in depth (I tried five units in front of the gate and it did not take long for them to be trounced).

I must echo complaints about the gates too. Those rams seem VERY effective (and I STILL think we need ditches or moats!).

[Waleed]

The turks are one of my favorite factions to play so by now I've developed a pretty sound strategy for dealing with the horde. When the horde comes they come with so many units it's nearly impossible for you to defend against them. In fact don't even try you will lose a large part of your army. What I do is when the horde invades I take all of my top military units and even mediocre military units and move them as far west as possible. I form all of my armies in my western provinces. The provinces to the east I max out with free-upkeep militia units. The point of this is to just let the horde roll through your eastern provinces. This way they'll lose some of their units sieging your provinces to the east. Before you do this make sure you raze ALL of the buildings possible of being razed in those provinces. You will get some of your money back and it will give less money to the horde when they sack your province. I also jack taxes up to the highest possible level as I don't really care about population growth in those settlements anymore. Basicially you just want to milk those provinces of every ounce of cash in them before you let the horde take them.

Now when you're letting the horde take your eastern provinces what I try to do is take all of my armies and try to push hard through Constantinople. If you can grab that settlement I got a good chokepoint in which I may be able to hold and fight. Basicially I abandon much of Asia minor and make my new home Constantinople, Greece, and the balkan states. It's hard to get a foothold and you need to be pick your battles carefully as you don't want to exhaust your units. Hopefully the money you were able to get out of your eastern provinces will help you in conquering as much byzantine land as possible.

Hopefully by this time much of the horde's forces will have been diverted into Russia and Egypt (the horde always seems to have a mission of eradicating Egypt). If this has happend the forces the horde comes after you with will not be anywhere near their full strength. If you can control the two chokepoints in constantinople this can prove to be a good way to start taking strength away from the horde. What I do is hold out here as long as possible. If the horde diverts more units towards you then you may need to evaluate how easy it would be to pick up again and move up into the balkans.

This seems a bit drastic, actually picking up your empire and forcing it west but I find that it is the easiest and best way to deal with the horde, it will also knock out one of your neighbors or severely weaken them allowing you to focus exclusivly on the horde. In the last turkish game I played I abandoned my provinces up to Inconium and held out there. I was able to holde and repel the horde there. So it may not require you to go all the way to the balkans just to mount a stand.

[Zanderpants]

My tactic for fighting the Mongols is a bit different. On my Scottish campaign, I had a mighty trade empire consisting of all of the British Isles, Scandanavia, and all of the islands in the Med. The Mongols invaded, displacing the Egyptians, and eliminated the Turks, carving out a nice empire for themselves. In response to this, I impressed upon the Pope, the need to take Jerusalem from their Pagan hands, and off went all of Christendom. Twice.
My European rivals became martially powerless as they sent all of their armies to be slaughtered in the East, the Mongolian realm was totally de-stablized, and between the crusaders and rebellions, the Khan's armies were reduced to almost nothing by the time the Timurids arrived on the scene. The Golden Horde was easily displaced by the Timurids without much loss. Repeat.

On another note: Once they finally settle, the Mongols make EXCELLENT trade partners, and for an empire that's very far away from them, excellent allies. They were constantly helping me fight the Venetians at sea before I had them wiped out. Muahahaha!

[misima]

Im playing on VH/VH for Russians.

I was waitnig for Mongols, because on my west boarders Im kicking shit out of Danish ans Venetian. Poles and Hungarian I already destroyed.
There is one good tactic: - dont take all cities u conquer, just rob them, take only strategik city in the begining. After u will get all them. So ,y Russia now has lots of cities huge armies, mostly on east borders and best economy in the known world (except Mongol of course).

Back to mongols. When i got a messege about Mongols caming, I made 2 high end armies on my east borders, and made my great King (7 stars) with his not big, but expirienced army (all units with at least 2 silver, some with gold) go to east borders.

i had only 1 battle with Mongols until today. One my expensive, but newbie army faced 3000 Mongols (I had only 1000 soldiers). So they defeat me, but I killed around 2000 of their forces. I managed to defeat 1 and second wave, 3 killed me.
Now I have 3 Armies assunlting Kiev. In Kiev I have full garnizon of high end soldiers (lots of good archers), but poor general. Its really fun. Im going to play Kiev deffence today. Moreover as soon as my King (he is near Kiev) will get some reinforcments, he will attack. Im sure even if they would took Kiev, they will lost a lot of force, my king with his victorious army will tear rest of them apart.
I like Mongols their making game chalenging.

[Subedei]

@ Waleed: Yes, I was thinking about this too. Grab as much money as you can get and run. Wait till they wear down & try to return. They beat me once as the Turks...so I started a new campaign and had the plans of burn my bridges too. In this campaign they were a "feature" in the steppes of Russia, so I was spared & able to build up my Empire in the Middle East & Egypt...kknocking on the gates of Vienna right now [no logistic problems or rainy Summers in my campaign Mr. Holy Roman Emperor ].

General notice
One thing I would like to mention: I think it is a strange feature of the game, letting the Horseymen be so decisive. Honestly: If they show up in your provinces you have to make tremendous efforts to deal with them eitherways, so it is way harder for you to go for your goals of conquering, as one is defending all the time for a while.. Wouldn´t it be a possiblity to devide them and let them attack North and South of the Caspian Sea? They would still be a challenge, but one could deal with them.Alliances with you would be more attractive for others etc....

Don´t get me wrong: I like fighting them [would really love to play them], but I don´t like being frustrated..... Or maybe I just suck as a Sultan.....

[misima]

Subedei

Even on VH/VH this game is easy. Battles are too easy, couse AI very very stupid. I manage to win, even when Im totally outnumbered.
All u need is to figuire out the winning tatctic and fit u army with right units.

The worst thing Mongol will do to me is they will take Kiev for several turnes, thats all. After that I will destroy their first invasion complitely. Couse in a few turnes I will have huge expirience army with 7 stars general. Im just waiting some retraining and reinfoircmets. If Mongols somehow will take Kiev without much loss (I dont think its really possible), I will just bring one or two my south west armies to help my king. If I really wanted I would destroy them on my borders, I was just too lazy to bring more forces from my west borders.

[Subedei]

Subedei

Even on VH/VH this game is easy. Battles are too easy, couse AI very very stupid. I manage to win, even when Im totally outnumbered.
All u need is to figuire out the winning tatctic and fit u army with right units.

The worst thing Mongol will do to me is they will take Kiev for several turnes, thats all. After that I will destroy their first invasion complitely. Couse in a few turnes I will have huge expirience army with 7 stars general. Im just waiting some retraining and reinfoircmets. If Mongols somehow will take Kiev without much loss (I dont think its really possible), I will just bring one or two my south west armies to help my king. If I really wanted I would destroy them on my borders, I was just too lazy to bring more forces from my west borders.

Well, o.kay....maybe the Mongols behave differently in Mother Russia....but in my campaign right now they are rampaging the Russian/Polish lands... I follow the action with a spy.

Question for misima:
1. "What are your winning tactics?"
2. "What is your army composition?"
3. "Which faction are you playing? The Russians?

Totally outnumbered on VH.....any screenies you could post, no offence, just wondered????

Cheers, a very curious Subedei.....

[Darth Nihilus]

They only took Antioch from me in my Byzantine campaign, in which I held all of Asia Monor. I took it back a few turns later. I very rarely faced them in the open field, so I didn't have a huge problem with them. Hey, it only took me 80 turns to kill them off, but I was really happy when I did.

[Kagemusha]

The Mongols come in just like they should.They were a almost unstoppable force when they appeared in Middle East and Russia. I love how in this game there are actually challenges and strugle.Not that i miss Mongols in my current HRE campaign.Im at war with:France,Milan,Venice,Hungary and Denmark

[danfda]

In my h/h Russian campaign, the Mongols came and went south. They completely ignored my large, northern European empire and instead ravaged the Middle East. The Turks and Eggies are both gone, and I've allied with the Mongols (though they are fighting the Byz, the only faction with whom I've got a decent relationship). I too followed much of their conquests by spy, and decided that if they wanted to come and play, I'd let them have it from ranks upon rank of cossack musketeers...

[Orda Khan]

[would really love to play them]

You can
MTW2: Regnum Dei - All Factions version 1.7.7 Premium

.....Orda

[phred]

but like they became Islamic around 1300? so.. :(

even in the game they are Islamic..

also there is NO and I repeat NO way to have ceasefire.. or alliance :(

I was having similar problems in my Turk campaign (M/M).
After they took Antioch, I abandoned Acre and Jerusalum destroying every building. They took Acre and Jerusalum and eventually asked me to be their vassal.
Being their vassal helped considerably. Everyone in Europe made peace with me, usually giving money. The Mongols broke the alliance eventually but by then their armies were a mix of Mongol troops and town/spear militia. The Black Death also helped whittle the armies down.

Also, it you have an Imam with high piety, declare a jihad to Cordoba or some other far away city. The Mongols will send 2 or 3 stacks on the jihad.