Declaring war...peacefully?

[Werner]

In my newest campaign as the Scots I have managed to ally with everyone from the start. I took two diplomats and stormed the land offering alliances for money and managed to ally with everyone, say for the Moors. Now that my armies have built up I see the need to start my attack on the English. I did it as diplomatically as I could, breaking the alliance first and then declaring war on the (now) "neutral" faction, England. Immidiately Poland, the HRE and Hungry all broke their alliances with me. Is this because they were allied with England when it happend? Is there an easier, more diplomatic way of declaring war on a nation, without breaking those alliances?

Thanks

[knoddy]

most probably yes, they broke alliance's with you cos they had an alliance with ur enemy. and no there is no way to declare war and avoid this. ur allies must choose between u and ur enemy.

Cheers Knoddy

[Shahed]

Breaking the alliance is also a bad thing, diplomacy-wise. It will bring your reputation down.

[Musashi]

You never want to attack another faction if you can avoid it... Better to give the impression of weakness to draw them into attacking you, and then retaliate.

That way their reputation plummets and yours remains untarnished.

If you're a catholic faction you can't even retaliate (Except to repel invading troops from your own territory) until the enemy attacks enough to get themselves excommunicated.

After that they're fair game though.

[Kraxis]

You can also do the opposite, and build up a mass of troops on the border, cross it now and then, have lunch in 'allied' territory. And generally being a pain in the rear. Then at some point the ally WILL get fed up and does something foolish.

[BeeSting]

In my current campaign as HRE, France delcared war without blocking a port or attacking anything... is this option only available for AI factions?

[pevergreen]

As far as i can see, yes. That was in RTW as well.

[knoddy]

In my current campaign as HRE, France delcared war without blocking a port or attacking anything... is this option only available for AI factions?

most likely u caught a spy or assasin in a town or attempting to do in a general, catching subterfuge agents is an act of war. i had the same thing, i got the betrayed message in my scotland camp, and couldnt figure out y i was at war with france, but then i realised i caught a french spy in burges, which had triggered war.

Cheers Knoddy

[Darius]

Make outrageous demands, like all their cities and huge sums of money repeatedly until they hate you, then at least your reputation shouldnt take the hit for starting the war. You could even try leaving a sacrificial lamb in the form of a very lightly defended city/castle open to their border to see if you can tempt them into taking the bait.

[Aelwyn]

Perhaps this is why the Papacy has hated me from day one, and I'm not to be trusted...but I don't worry about all that. Cross borders, attack other Catholic factions, assassinate everyone in sight; it's all fair game to me.

Oddly enough, all the Muslim factions seem to love me after that. Possibly because I'm the black sheep of the Catholics...fighting all the other Catholics, so they don't have to.

[Musashi]

You can also do the opposite, and build up a mass of troops on the border, cross it now and then, have lunch in 'allied' territory. And generally being a pain in the rear. Then at some point the ally WILL get fed up and does something foolish.

If I do this, I take a different approach... I don't put a big army on their border, I put little armies on their border.

Appear threatening and weak at the same time and they'll be all over you.

Of course, it's not your fault they didn't know about the 3 full stack cavalry armies waiting just out of sight...

[GiantMonkeyMan]

diplomacy is greatly flawed on M2TW... on the inside of the files each faction has a 'standing' with you that ranges from -1.0 to 1.0... when you break an alliance with someone you gain -0.1 with everyone and when you declare war on someone everyone reverts to -1.0/800 faction standing, which annoys me... very much...

so this is why diplomacy sucks in the game at the moment
GMM

[akinkhoo]

Oddly enough, all the Muslim factions seem to love me after that. Possibly because I'm the black sheep of the Catholics...fighting all the other Catholics, so they don't have to.

why didn't we love saddam? heheheh...

---

anyway, i got some into being "good friends" by sharing the pie of conquest. eg. i gave 1 of the HRE city i took to France. now they are busy killing each other and i need not worry about HRE at my backyard.... since it is now that's french backyard



early allies is useful in very hard mode since your rating fall in late game. so i plan carefully in the needs of my country to avoid "buying" expensive allies... but allying everyone is a bad idea unless you are never going to start a war...

also there is this stupid bugger that allow the AI to allied the enemy and force a truce between you (however the player cannot force the allies to stop war, which might make it more fun!). i make sure my allies hate mine enemy from then on to ensure they don't get brought over and lock me in a truce just 1 turn from taking their capital.

[Musashi]

diplomacy is greatly flawed on M2TW... on the inside of the files each faction has a 'standing' with you that ranges from -1.0 to 1.0... when you break an alliance with someone you gain -0.1 with everyone and when you declare war on someone everyone reverts to -1.0/800 faction standing, which annoys me... very much...

so this is why diplomacy sucks in the game at the moment
GMM

What's wrong with that? If you start wars your reputation should plummet...

[Werner]

Well so far I've kicked England off the British Isle's. Just after taking London they offered a ceasefire, I replied offering ceasefire-demanding payment per turn. They said no, so we're still engaged at war. I thought there was an option to be vassels when trying to ceasefire, I wanted to offer that but it wasnt available.

Other than that everyone else still likes me and I'm in the process of rebuilding my alliance with HRE and Poland.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

What's wrong with that? If you start wars your reputation should plummet...

well surely not everyone would start to distrust you... for example if the faction you declared on is at war with other people then those people will actually welcome the fact that you declared war on their enemy, your allies should support you in your declaration and your new enemies allies should lose faction standing with you.... but not EVERYONE...
for example the monguls wouldn't care much if the scottish declared war on the english but the french might decide that allying with the scottish will help them get rid of those pesky english... the monguls probably wouldn't even hear about it

[Slaists]

In my experience, catching spies does not "do the trick". I catch French spies all the time (with an info pop-pup that I have caught their spy), but now war. I believe, it's a foiled assassin attack on a general (or faction leader), in which the AI assassin got caught. I have triggered a war this way myself. Attempted to assassinate the French king. My assassin died and I was at war...

most likely u caught a spy or assasin in a town or attempting to do in a general, catching subterfuge agents is an act of war. i had the same thing, i got the betrayed message in my scotland camp, and couldnt figure out y i was at war with france, but then i realised i caught a french spy in burges, which had triggered war.

Cheers Knoddy

[Werner]

well surely not everyone would start to distrust you... for example if the faction you declared on is at war with other people then those people will actually welcome the fact that you declared war on their enemy, your allies should support you in your declaration and your new enemies allies should lose faction standing with you.... but not EVERYONE...
for example the monguls wouldn't care much if the scottish declared war on the english but the french might decide that allying with the scottish will help them get rid of those pesky english... the monguls probably wouldn't even hear about it

Yeah, right. If only it worked like that.

[Musashi]

well surely not everyone would start to distrust you... for example if the faction you declared on is at war with other people then those people will actually welcome the fact that you declared war on their enemy, your allies should support you in your declaration and your new enemies allies should lose faction standing with you.... but not EVERYONE...
for example the monguls wouldn't care much if the scottish declared war on the english but the french might decide that allying with the scottish will help them get rid of those pesky english... the monguls probably wouldn't even hear about it

Actually, if you were allied before you declared war... Yes, yes everyone would care. Who's going to trust someone who would go to war with an ally?

Additionally, no one likes an expansionist faction.