Chivalry and Dread

**Mahrabals apprentice** · 12-06-2006, 23:59

Can somebody please tell me the pros and cons of the Chivalry and Dread attributes?

**Handel** · 12-07-2006, 00:02

As I understand it dread causes morale in the enemy, while chivalry cause morale boost in your troops. As for me I prefer the enemy to root than my troops to fight longer before rooting. but surely some people prefer chivalry.

**Oaty** · 12-07-2006, 00:07

I havent looked into it too far but dread increases happiness. A king with high dread will also increase happiness/fear. I think it may also cause morale drops for the enemy.

Chivalry I suspect raises population growth, but could be wrong. I think chivalry increases happiness to help counter the extra population a bit.Also I believe it also increases morale for you own troops

**Aks K** · 12-07-2006, 00:42

In cities and castles chivalry acts like influence from RTW, but now it also improve growth.
Does dread only increase happiness (read: fear) and not growth? I seem to have problems keeping citizen happy with governors which has dread.

Aks K

**pevergreen** · 12-07-2006, 00:45

Originally Posted by Handel

As I understand it dread causes morale in the enemy, while chivalry cause morale boost in your troops. As for me I prefer the enemy to root than my troops to fight longer before rooting. but surely some people prefer chivalry.

Dread causes a morale drop in both forces, but if the General's dread is high enough, a slight morale boost to your troops (out of fear). Chivalry causes morale boost for your force. Having dreadful and chivalrious generals for each situation is better than one general fits all.

Sorry to be a nag, but its routing and rout not root which is the same as s**.

**Trithemius** · 12-07-2006, 01:18

I found, playing as the Turks against the Mongols, that the Mongol's Dreadful generals made my troops far more likely to break and flee in combat. I could normally round them up again, but I lost a few sipahi lancers that way.

**Shahed** · 12-07-2006, 06:07

I've been looking in the traits file and from what I can see dread traits do nothing at all positive. All they do is reduce chivalry and some reduce your OWN troop morale. Worse than Zilch.

Am I missing something ? It's a bit unclear because the troop morale penalty applies to your own troops from the looks of it. Anyone can explain ?

Code:

Trait RansomDread
    Characters family
    AntiTraits RansomChivalry

    Level Grim_Commander
        Description Grim_Commander_desc
        EffectsDescription Grim_Commander_effects_desc
        Threshold  1 

        Effect Chivalry -1 

    Level Cold_Commander
        Description Cold_Commander_desc
        EffectsDescription Cold_Commander_effects_desc
        Threshold  2 

        Effect Chivalry -2 
        Effect TroopMorale -1

**dopp** · 12-07-2006, 13:09

Chivalry and dread are positive and negative on the same scale. If you have 1 chivalry and you get a -2 chivalry trait, you end up with 1 dread. The -1 morale is in addition to the effects of dread for Cold_Commander. You pick that one up by not ransoming your own troops when they get captured.

**Kraxis** · 12-07-2006, 14:34

Yup and it is a seperate effect, not connected to the Dread per se.

Dread certainly seems to affect enemy forces hugely. At times the enemie simply break before meeting my king in battle, and we are talking about knights and the like. He is of course hugely dreaded, and an evil bastard.

**dopp** · 12-07-2006, 15:13

I loved the "kill all prisoners now" button in MTW. I pressed it every time scruffy Berber camel-herders killed my shiny katatanks, then I simply grew fond of pressing it and gained an evil reputation. After a battle in M2TW I tend to hover my mouse over the various options, just to hear them plead for mercy.

Having a ransom refused does not count as an execution against you. Annihilating your enemy, having too many personal kills from your general, continuing the battle after the enemy routs and executing prisoners all affects dread. Not fighting, not pursuing and fighting only the enemy general in battle increases chivalry. Since most of us fight "efficiently" in approved modern fashion (annihilate the enemy), I suspect bloodthirsty and dreaded generals tend to be more common than chivalrous ones.

If your king has less than 3 chivalry your chivalrous generals start becoming discontent. You have been warned. On the other hand, dreaded generals couldn't care less how nasty your king is, and are actually more reliable overall.

**Slaists** · 12-07-2006, 16:11

Not keeping your taxes at VH but rather at High when your general is governing is likely to give him "fair in rule", "chivalrous in rule" line ot traits. Note, that having taxes at VH even just for a turn with this general is likely to take points away from the aforementioned traits... knowledge earned the "hard way".

Using spies and assassins (especially the assassins) is likely to reduce your king's chivalry and increase his dread.

**chunkynut** · 12-07-2006, 16:36

Originally Posted by Slaists

Using spies and assassins (especially the assassins) is likely to reduce your king's chivalry and increase his dread.

My English Kings where all 'Tyrants' or 'Merciless' due to these traits but I never noticed discontent amongst my chivalrous generals.

**SirGrotius** · 12-07-2006, 18:22

I've seen an AI-controlled army rout before firing more than a couple shots because I had a high-dread general.

**Shahed** · 12-07-2006, 19:24

Thanks for the explanation on dread. That is cool ! I will have to train up one high dread general, at least one. A very high dread general sounds great for Turks, always outnumbered, typcially you surround and slam individual units, the faster they rout the better.

I have like 15 family members, but only one has a dread rating of three.. all the rest are all +1 -> +4 chivalry. I lve the way there are so many ways to play.

I love the voiceovers as well. I stopped sacking cities, I want to see what the effect on diplomacy will be.