Spies are really getting out of hand.

**Zenicetus** · 12-08-2006, 23:24

Originally Posted by Lochar

I learned to have at least 2 spies in my frontline territories and at least 1 in my backlines or rove them as a CI source.

The reason I did this wasnt the siege aspect so much as civil unrest. I dont know if its buggy but spies can stir the pot up too much.

I'm getting the feeling CA just wanted more aggressive use of spies in this game, at least compared to RTW. When I got down to Marrakesh, the Moors had four spies in there, which defeated all attempts to get my own spies and assassins into the city. They flooded two of my main cities in Iberia with spies, which took several spies of my own in each city to eventually root out. Any time you see a suspiciously high level of unrest in your settlements (regular unrest, not religious), you're likely to have a spy or two in there.

I enjoy the espionage/assassin side of the game, but this is making me do more micromanagement between turns, and I'm not really thrilled with that. It also tilts the campaign strategy somewhat. Once I clear enemy spies out of my cities (or eliminate the faction), I a have a big army of spies left over that I'm tempted to use to open city gates and cause unrest/flip to rebels, instead of using conventional attacks on my front line of conquest.

So I'm still kinda on the fence about the increased level of spy activity in this game. I enjoy it, but it's a lot of work. I'm sure the modders will figure out ways to adjust it.

**andrewt** · 12-08-2006, 23:35

I use a lot of micromanagement with my spies. If any other faction has diplomats, princesses, merchants, or priests near your settlement, use them to raise your spies' skill level. The success rate is 93% or 100% for these agents usually and your spies get up to 3 more skill levels before you don't see increases anymore. I just let the spy inspect one of them near my settlement then put them back in the settlement. Higher level spies means better chances of detecting enemy spies.

**ersvale the dreadfull** · 12-09-2006, 12:57

Can somebody tell me what those heartbeats, that you hear when the ai makes his moves,

are trying to tell me? I can't figure it out, but it seems to have something to do with my spies...

**Bob the Insane** · 12-09-2006, 13:10

A slightly OT question...

I have seen enemy spies die tring to get into my settlements. But I have never (NEVER) once had that happen to one of my spies. Not really a problem you say, but I would like to see the failure movie at least once I say!!

So has anyone ever seen their spy fail at entering a settlements or spying on an enemy stack?

**Zenicetus** · 12-09-2006, 20:16

Originally Posted by Bob the Insane

A slightly OT question...

I have seen enemy spies die tring to get into my settlements. But I have never (NEVER) once had that happen to one of my spies. Not really a problem you say, but I would like to see the failure movie at least once I say!!

So has anyone ever seen their spy fail at entering a settlements or spying on an enemy stack?

Oh yeah, in that situation I mentioned above: four enemy spies in Marrakesh when I was trying to take it. My spies died every time I tried to enter the city.

They also had an "area of effect" around the city. I couldn't assassinate or spy on anyone standing close to the city, even when the kill-o-meter for my assassin said 85% success estimate.

**Hashashiyyin** · 12-09-2006, 20:24

If you are having a hard time with spies you need to counter with even more spies. In a Turk VH/VH campaign I had to keep 5 spies and 2 assassins in Constantinople to root out Byzantines level 10 spy. It took probably 6-10 turns before they got him, but since then, no other spy has managed to make it into Constantinople and I keep 4 spies in the city. The ones that are sent to Constantinople just sit outside the gates until they eventually die trying to get in or one of my assassins gets them.

**Zenicetus** · 12-09-2006, 20:31

Does anyone know if it helps to have a mix of spies and assassins in your city, to root out enemy agents? Or is it just the sum total of subterfuge points for your agents in the city, and it doesn't matter if it's spies or assassins?

One other thing I've noticed is that castles are fairly immune to infiltration. I think maybe the campaign AI doesn't bother sending spies there to cause unrest, because of the built-in resistance with castles. It means I can focus more on protecting my cities.

**Aquitaine** · 12-09-2006, 15:40

Originally Posted by ersvale the dreadfull

Can somebody tell me what those heartbeats, that you hear when the ai makes his moves,

are trying to tell me? I can't figure it out, but it seems to have something to do with my spies...

It means the AI is using a spy, probably against you, but there does appear to be a bug with certain sound effects from what the AI is doing playing as though you were doing what the AI is doing while the AI is taking its turn.

The heartbeat is a legit AI-turn sound, though, I think.

**Shahed** · 12-09-2006, 15:45

When you hear the pulse it's an AI spy doing an infiltration mission.

To the OP< as already stated the issue is that you don't have enough spies of your own. If you have one skill 4 or 2 skill 2 spies inside each city there's no way an enemy spy (unless he's very high skill) will last in that city. You need counterspies.

**Fisherking** · 12-09-2006, 20:03

Failing to get a spy into a city has been my specialty...I'll go with a 93% chance and get killed every time. I have seen loads of my spies run through...
I is an economic drain so far as I am concerned... I have had a much too high failure rate with every sort of agent form Assassin to Princess...Given high likely hood of accomplishment they all seem to botch it. I had a Cardinal die from witch bite with a 95% chance to fry her.... actually two Cardinals in one turn...