Militia vs Trained

[Carl]

Thanks for that Kraxis, TBH I’d always assumed that Pikes weren’t that penetrating, (I figured most of the effort would actually go into holding them up, so you wouldn't be able to push them forward too fast). I also followed the movies a bit in assuming the shield was virtually un-penetrate-able under normal circumstances.

[Kraxis]

Shields were/are generally very good protectors, but even the aspis/hoplon is mentioned time and again to be penetrated in the battles of the hoplites.

And thrown javelins often penetrated shields. Perhaps not fatally so very often, but it clearly indicates that shields were not portable force fields.

Imagine the pikeman again, in conjunction with the warsong the unit is singing he knows when to take a step forward and push at the same time. That would be a powerful thrust, simlar to a ram at a gate. penetrating an enemy shield? Definately not all the time, maybe not even once in 20 thrusts. But 1:20 is deadly enough for an entire frontline. That would mean hundreds of shields penetrated with each thrust. The man would have to drop the shield if he wasn't already skewered... Terribly thing in front of so many points.

The pike wasn't a wonderweapon, but it wa dangerous to those who faced it, and the Romans certainly disliked it for it was one of the few things that could overpower them where they were normally strongest, in the center. And of course seeing friends getting killed while you can do nothing to avenge them is not fun. Even knowing that right now your own forces are closing in on the flanks of the enemy is little help, as such will still take long to reach the center.