Moderation not a part of being a moderator?

[Aenlic]

At come point, common sense has to enter into the equation, especially in the backroom. Lately, moderation and common sense don't seem to apply to warnings.

In this thread:

[URL="https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=74189"]Move over CNN, BBC world and Al-Jazeera... /URL]

My joking post, which was #2 in the thread

But the real question is how long before they capitulate in the face of competition?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I get a warning for country bashing. Are you kidding me? A light-hearted attempt at humor in the backroom of all places gets a warning?

Considering Tribesman's thread, I'm beginning to think that perhaps one of the moderators is in charge of the wrong forum, or perhaps needs to take a long break to recover some sense of equilibrium and a sense of humor.

[Mithrandir]

I was hoping for some more complaining when I woke up this morning.

Thanks.

If I didn't give you the alert -not warning- it would be inconsistent with what other moderators have done, and with what I have done. Then others would complain.

Besides that, if I try to be funny and bring some humour in the backroom by saying X-citizens are stupid, Y-citizens are cowardly etc. it can very well be offensive to X/Y citizen. Wether my intentions were good or not.

But thanks again .

[Aenlic]

Yes, that's all fine, Mithrandir.

In what way did my post say X-citizens are stupid or Y-citizens are cowardly? You can jump to all the conclusions you wish. My post was an attempt at humor about a TV station. How you get from there to country bashing is a truly prodigious feat of conclusion leaping.

And if you don't like the complaints in this forum in particular, then I recommend that you read the Watchtower forum description.

If, on the other hand, your intent is to find a way to demote me, then just go ahead and do it and quit playing silly games.

[Louis VI the Fat]

For what it's worth: it was understood by me as a light-hearted joke. It even had a smiley and all.

Heck, even today, I made a stereotypical joke about France's percieved lack of military prowess:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...7&postcount=14

Some humour at the expense of other nations should be allowed - I wouldn't want to lose my ability to smite the Anglosaxons with sarcastic comments every chance I get...

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

and isn't it funny how Tribes can get off the hook for what he did, only to start touble with me again, with no mods steping in (last time I checked)?


"I'm beginning to think that perhaps one of the moderators is in charge of the wrong forum, or perhaps needs to take a long break to recover some sense of equilibrium and a sense of humor."

No, I think there some Mods here, that just can't mod IMO.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I'm beginning to think that perhaps one of the moderators is in charge of the wrong forum, or perhaps needs to take a long break to recover some sense of equilibrium and a sense of humor.

Come on, Aenlic. Sarcastic jokes, even light-hearted ones, can get lost in translation, especially in written text, and even more so on the internet. No point in getting personal with a mod over it.

A comparison with other posts and with standard .Org policy is a better means.

[Louis VI the Fat]

No, I think there some Mods here, that just can't mod IMO.

Come on, KingWarman888. No point in getting personal with a mod over it.

A comparison with other posts and with standard .Org policy is a better means.

[Tribesman]

and isn't it funny how Tribes can get off the hook for what he did, only to start touble with me again, with no mods steping in (last time I checked)?

Hey come on Warman , I only suggested a book to add to your list of Christmas presents from santa..
I thought it might be helpfull and constructive for future debates you may wish to partake in .

[Stig]

meh I made a joke about all people at totalwar.com being n00bs, use a smiley and all
Got a warning for it, like I care, they dissappear after 30 days

[caravel]

If you got the same warning as I did, 0 point, then you shouldn't even be complaining s it's not a real warning at all.

[Mithrandir]

If I didn't give you the alert -not warning- it would be inconsistent with what other moderators have done, and with what I have done. Then others would complain.

0-point=Alert.

To alert someone.

[Aenlic]

For what it's worth: it was understood by me as a light-hearted joke. It even had a smiley and all.

Heck, even today, I made a stereotypical joke about France's percieved lack of military prowess:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...7&postcount=14

Some humour at the expense of other nations should be allowed - I wouldn't want to lose my ability to smite the Anglosaxons with sarcastic comments every chance I get...

Thanks for saying that, Louis. I knew you would percieve it in the spirit it was meant, a light-hearted joke. But then, you have a sense of humor.

[TosaInu]

There's been enough fuss about light hearted jokes in the past. Who is tough enough to stomach some dutch ones?

Obviously a private zero pointer is already too much.

[Ser Clegane]

I'm beginning to think that perhaps one of the moderators is in charge of the wrong forum,

No, I think there some Mods here, that just can't mod IMO.

Amazingly it is often those who still have a lot of untapped potential when it comes to improving their manners , who seem to cry the loudest.

Same old same...

[Reenk Roink]

Amazingly it is often those who still have a lot of untapped potential when it comes to improving their manners , who seem to cry the loudest.

Same old same...

Sigged!

[therother]

Amazingly it is often those who still have a lot of untapped potential when it comes to improving their manners , who seem to cry the loudest.

Same old same...

Indeed, and two wrongs...

[econ21]

But, therother, there was nothing "wrong" with the original warning. We have a policy against country bashing. Responding to a post about a French broadcasting enterprise by saying how soon will the Frenchies all run away is country bashing, whether supposed to be funny or not. It's like supposedly "mild" swearing - it's still swearing, whether mild or not. A zero pointer is perfectly in order here, if the person being warned is not up on a first offence.

Aenlic, I am sorry, but you should just take your lumps and not contribute to the increasing number of worthless Watchtower threads posted by members complaining about legitimate warnings.

Personally, as a Brit, I have zero tolerance for French bashing. It's not new, it's not funny and it's not clever. I am also deeply suspicious of its current emergence in the aftermath of the Iraq invasion. There's a political undertone to that which you don't need to be an Einstein to figure out. I'm in danger of getting all political and backroomy here, but the strength of feeling I have on the question does indicate why a "no country bashing" policy, like a "no swearing" policy, might be a sensible precautionary step in a community of people with very different origins and sensibilities.

[therother]

I didn't make any reference to the initial warning: whether I agree or disagree with it is irrelevant to the point I was trying to make, which was very narrow in scope. Ser Clegane criticised the OP and another poster for their lack of manners, and characteristed specific lines of each as "crying", a comment I felt did not exactly embody the type of "manners" I would like to see around the forums.

[Aenlic]

Amazingly it is often those who still have a lot of untapped potential when it comes to improving their manners , who seem to cry the loudest.

Same old same...

This post constitutes insulting two members and deserves two warnings. Or is there a double standard? Yeah, that's what I thought.

[Mithrandir]

Cry
~to call loudly; shout; yell

[Aenlic]

Oh, of course, how silly of me. If the intended insult is veiled then it isn't really an insult, in spite of the obvious intent. Whereas, if the light-hearted comment isn't intended as country bashing isn't taken as country bashing by the thread starter, it's still country bashing. Astounding. Truly astounding.

[therother]

Cry
~to call loudly; shout; yell

That's certainly one definition. But in a thread all about the possible interpretation of jokes and words, wouldn't using one of the many other English words, which couldn't possibly be misinterpreted, convey the same meaning without any (I assume unintended) misunderstandings?

Regardless of which meaning was intended, IMHO the fundamental tone of the post remains the unchanged.

[Ser Clegane]

Nothing has been "veiled".

I think it is very clear that I feel that the manners of the two patrons who chose to attack a moderator in this thread leave something to be desired (see quoted statements in my first post)

This impression is not primarily or exclusively based on the statements in this particular thread here, but on a rather broad range of statements in other threads, where other patrons have repeatedly been personally attacked.

If you do not think that personally attacking patrons who do not happen to share your views indicates a certain lack of good manners, then our respective definitions of good manners differ significantly.

[therother]

I think it is clear, from my initial post, what my opinion is regarding the manner in which the two posters chose to express themselves in the lines you quote. But that they may have chosen to be impolite doesn't give other patrons free reign to respond in kind. This is, however, not relevant to the thread itself, so if you wish to continue this discussion I suggest we take it to PM.

[Ser Clegane]

so if you wish to continue this discussion I suggest we take it to PM.

This will probably not be necessary as my last post was not directed at your post that directly preceded it but rather was a direct response to Aenlic's last post

(I probably should have quoted the statement I was referring to)

[Reenk Roink]

This post constitutes insulting two members and deserves two warnings. Or is there a double standard? Yeah, that's what I thought.

You'd be pretty hard pressed to actually equate that statement with yours.

Also, I saw the pissing contest you got into recently not to mention other posts I could come up with.

Needless to say, you shouldn't take that statement as an insult, but actually reflect on it. It's a good piece of advice for you, and me, and everyone...

[Blodrast]

I think it is very clear that I feel that the manners of the two patrons who chose to attack a moderator in this thread leave something to be desired (see quoted statements in my first post)

Attacking a moderator ?
So now disagreeing with a method of moderation is attacking ?!
Sheesh.
Maybe then we should then close the watchtower altogether, because my impression was that such disagreements were a big part of the purpose it serves... Because we don't want everybody attacking the moderators, do we ?

In view of this, and other, recent (and relatively similar) threads, how about you (and by "you" I don't mean a specific you, but everybody involved) try to consider something: if a lot of people complain about moderating style, then, in my mind, there are likely two possibilities:
1. there's something wrong with the moderating style.
2. there's something wrong with the people.

It certainly doesn't look to me that both have actually been considered.

You know, if the complaints had been from more "extreme" posters, like, say, PanzerJager, or King Ragnar (iirc), etc, then sure, I'd understand.
But since they seem to be made by a lot of "moderate" and normally civil members, and Senior Members, perhaps you should reconsider the issue, and not default on "there's something wrong with the people", as seems to be the case.

Well, thanks for reading, and feel free to add me up to the list of nasty cruel people who are "attacking" the mods.

[Mithrandir]

perhaps needs to take a long break to recover some sense of equilibrium and a sense of humor.

That's not simply disagreeing.

The fact that a patron is seen as a "moderate" member, or is a senior member does not change the fact that they too can break forum rules.

if a lot of people complain about moderating style,

From the hundreds of active members, about 10 complain. I don't think that's a lot. I also complain when I get a speedingfine, that doesn't mean I didn't speed.

[caravel]

All of this attacking of forum policy and moderator actons is getting boring now. I think some people must have nothing better to do. I see a few respected members here also that post intelligently in the backroom and yet are demeaning themselves here by perpetuating this fruitless debate. I feel that we're seeing these members in a different light. I've had warning points in the past for things that I thought were relatively minor. I've just accepted them and got over it. Never yet have I made it public and protested here since my return (I did when I first joined because I was being an idiot).

At another board (you know where) I was treated pretty unfairly and tried to protest against it, as you have done here. My post was deleted and I was told (by you know who) that if I did it again I'd be banned for a few days. After that injustice I simply left and never returned. Case closed. There is no need to do that here, as the .org doesn't treat you like that. This place is extremely fair compared to many other boards where admins do act on whims and do single members out and "orchestrate a ban" on people they don't like personally.

[Blodrast]

Caravel: so you believe that discussing mods' actions and criteria, and the rules, is purely destructive, and has absolutely no chance whatsoever to actually improve the quality of moderation ?

As for my spare time, well, we're all posting on these boards, aren't we?
So I think the "nothing better to do" applies equally to all of us.
Not to mention that if any of us actually plays the game(s) which are the main reason for the existence of these boards, again, we are all guilty of having too much spare time.

Mithrandir:

The fact that a patron is seen as a "moderate" member, or is a senior member does not change the fact that they too can break forum rules.

Of course not, and I did not imply, or claim that. I believe you got the point I was trying to make, which was not that moderate/senior members are (or should be) above the rules. But I will try to explain it again, more clearly this time: if known "trouble-makers" protest against the rules they are breaking on a regular basis, well, that shouldn't take too much time for consideration, because they've already proven, repeatedly, that they have troubles abiding to said rules.
If, however, folks with their head on their shoulders, people who behave in a mature and polite manner most of the time, who are respected members of our community (the status of Senior Member does show this, I hope you'll agree with me), complain about something, it makes more sense (to me) to listen to what they have to say, than you would for a known trouble-maker.

From the hundreds of active members, about 10 complain. I don't think that's a lot. I also complain when I get a speedingfine, that doesn't mean I didn't speed.

I believe that the number of regular posters in the backroom is much smaller than "hundreds".
We are (or at least I was) referring to the backroom. The posts I have been referring to address moderation in the backroom, regarding posts made in the backroom, and are/were made by regular posters in the backroom.

Again, see my point above: if member X, who joined a couple a weeks ago, has complaints, it's likely because he doesn't know the rules of the house yet, and I agree that he should first figure out how things work around here, make sure he understands what is acceptable and what not, and only then complain. So for that kind of complaints the mods shouldn't waste too much time, because, more likely than not, they are caused by an insufficient acquaintance with the house rules.

If, however, the complaint comes from someone who's been here, and in the backroom (which, again, I hope you'll agree with me, is different in its atmosphere from the rest of the .org), for several years, and proved that they can, and do, abide by the rules, for all these years (which shows they also understand said rules), then perhaps the issue does need to be considered.