Moderation not a part of being a moderator?

[Mithrandir]

perhaps needs to take a long break to recover some sense of equilibrium and a sense of humor.

That's not simply disagreeing.

The fact that a patron is seen as a "moderate" member, or is a senior member does not change the fact that they too can break forum rules.

if a lot of people complain about moderating style,

From the hundreds of active members, about 10 complain. I don't think that's a lot. I also complain when I get a speedingfine, that doesn't mean I didn't speed.

[caravel]

All of this attacking of forum policy and moderator actons is getting boring now. I think some people must have nothing better to do. I see a few respected members here also that post intelligently in the backroom and yet are demeaning themselves here by perpetuating this fruitless debate. I feel that we're seeing these members in a different light. I've had warning points in the past for things that I thought were relatively minor. I've just accepted them and got over it. Never yet have I made it public and protested here since my return (I did when I first joined because I was being an idiot).

At another board (you know where) I was treated pretty unfairly and tried to protest against it, as you have done here. My post was deleted and I was told (by you know who) that if I did it again I'd be banned for a few days. After that injustice I simply left and never returned. Case closed. There is no need to do that here, as the .org doesn't treat you like that. This place is extremely fair compared to many other boards where admins do act on whims and do single members out and "orchestrate a ban" on people they don't like personally.

[Blodrast]

Caravel: so you believe that discussing mods' actions and criteria, and the rules, is purely destructive, and has absolutely no chance whatsoever to actually improve the quality of moderation ?

As for my spare time, well, we're all posting on these boards, aren't we?
So I think the "nothing better to do" applies equally to all of us.
Not to mention that if any of us actually plays the game(s) which are the main reason for the existence of these boards, again, we are all guilty of having too much spare time.

Mithrandir:

The fact that a patron is seen as a "moderate" member, or is a senior member does not change the fact that they too can break forum rules.

Of course not, and I did not imply, or claim that. I believe you got the point I was trying to make, which was not that moderate/senior members are (or should be) above the rules. But I will try to explain it again, more clearly this time: if known "trouble-makers" protest against the rules they are breaking on a regular basis, well, that shouldn't take too much time for consideration, because they've already proven, repeatedly, that they have troubles abiding to said rules.
If, however, folks with their head on their shoulders, people who behave in a mature and polite manner most of the time, who are respected members of our community (the status of Senior Member does show this, I hope you'll agree with me), complain about something, it makes more sense (to me) to listen to what they have to say, than you would for a known trouble-maker.

From the hundreds of active members, about 10 complain. I don't think that's a lot. I also complain when I get a speedingfine, that doesn't mean I didn't speed.

I believe that the number of regular posters in the backroom is much smaller than "hundreds".
We are (or at least I was) referring to the backroom. The posts I have been referring to address moderation in the backroom, regarding posts made in the backroom, and are/were made by regular posters in the backroom.

Again, see my point above: if member X, who joined a couple a weeks ago, has complaints, it's likely because he doesn't know the rules of the house yet, and I agree that he should first figure out how things work around here, make sure he understands what is acceptable and what not, and only then complain. So for that kind of complaints the mods shouldn't waste too much time, because, more likely than not, they are caused by an insufficient acquaintance with the house rules.

If, however, the complaint comes from someone who's been here, and in the backroom (which, again, I hope you'll agree with me, is different in its atmosphere from the rest of the .org), for several years, and proved that they can, and do, abide by the rules, for all these years (which shows they also understand said rules), then perhaps the issue does need to be considered.

[Aenlic]

The wagons have circled, Clegane admits that his insult wasn't even veiled, I'm posting in a place which is supposed to be for this very purpose and yet I'm taken to task for it, even by the person who put the backroom in the Watchtower in the first place. It's all pretty clear. If this isn't the place for such criticism, then why is it here? Have I been complaining about warnings I've received recently which I did deserve? No. I deserved them and I accepted them. I'm here questioning the one which I feel was undeserved. In what I thought was the proper place.

Also, It's not just about a 0-point warning and both Mithrandir and Ser Clegane know it, and their dishonesty is apparent to me if not to others. And it's sheer hypocrisy of Ser Clegane to make statements regarding me personally attacking other patrons when I've never done so except in response to an initiation by the other party, and then for Clegane to come here and insult me for criticizing Mithrandir in a thread which appears to me to have been designed for questioning warnings? It's absolute crap. So, I'll make a deal. I'll climb off my excessively high horse when you do.

[Redleg]

The wagons have circled, Clegane admits that his insult wasn't even veiled, I'm posting in a place which is supposed to be for this very purpose and yet I'm taken to task for it, even by the person who put the backroom in the Watchtower in the first place. It's all pretty clear. If this isn't the place for such criticism, then why is it here? Have I been complaining about warnings I've received recently which I did deserve? No. I deserved them and I accepted them. I'm here questioning the one which I feel was undeserved. In what I thought was the proper place.

Also, It's not just about a 0-point warning and both Mithrandir and Ser Clegane know it, and their dishonesty is apparent to me if not to others. And it's sheer hypocrisy of Ser Clegane to make statements regarding me personally attacking other patrons when I've never done so except in response to an initiation by the other party, and then for Clegane to come here and insult me for criticizing Mithrandir in a thread which appears to me to have been designed for questioning warnings? It's absolute crap. So, I'll make a deal. I'll climb off my excessively high horse when you do.

This impression is not primarily or exclusively based on the statements in this particular thread here, but on a rather broad range of statements in other threads, where other patrons have repeatedly been personally attacked.

One such post of yours that Ser Clegane was referring to was this one.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...7&postcount=74

If your going to make such a claim - its normally better to review your own actions first. Your protest is about a warning alert about a light humor that the moderator did not think was proper in the backroom because of the nature of the joke. Nothing wrong with that alert at all, and maybe nothing wrong with the joke itself. But instead of addressing the alert and the comment that caused the alert - you chose a different course, one that belies your post here. Everyone can see the last sentence of your initial post was directed at an individual not the issue in which you wanted to discuss.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Aenlic, I think it's pretty clear that Ser was not insulting you (I don't see how any other definition of 'cry' than the one mith posted would make sense in that context), and he said there was no veiled insult.

No one is saying this isn't the place to complain, it's just that people get tired of the drama. Makes you wonder why they read it, but it's sort of like this image, you just keep staring:

[Aenlic]

Everyone can see the last sentence of your initial post was directed at an individual not the issue in which you wanted to discuss.

Redleg, in that very same thread, you claimed to be there solely for the purpose of harrassing me. You stated as such. You posted nothing in the thread on topic. In fact, in a thread which asked if others were athiests and if so why, you - a self-proclaimed non-atheist - were there for no reason other than to harrass me. Your presence in this thread also has no point other than to harrass me. Just shut up. You're one of the people that the supposedly fair moderators allow to get away with things like the above. Even when you admit doing it, as you did here. Did you see me in the "Is anyone else a Christian" thread harrassing other people? No. I would have no business posting in that thread. And yet, you get away with such things and think you're special because of it.

Econ21, I accept the reasoning. It's the uneven enforcement, as displayed above, which is the problem. It's the lack of common sense and fairness in the enforcement of the rules. It has become institutionalized; and in the case of a couple of people already named, it has become obvious to the point of being a blatant double standard.

And that's all I have to say on the matter. Continue allowing Redleg to harrass other members with whom he disagrees, and others of his ilk who do the same, even after admitting it like rEdleg did. Continue promoting people who misuse their positions and engage in open hypocrisy. It really doesn't matter.

[Mithrandir]

Aenlic, I do love it, you resort back to one of the 3 great arguments patrons use.

Have a complaint about a warning ? Pick any of the 3 below :

- I can do much worse!
- Others did bad things too and they weren't warned!
- You're a triggerhappy stupid person with too much time on your hands, get a life!

You picked the second. On which fact do you base Redleg doesn't receive warnings for posts he makes which break the forum rules?

Anyway, ignore the above :

Let me summarise:

You're not complaining about the warning alert I handed you, but you feel you're being singled out ? Why didn't you state so in the initial post ?

[Gregoshi]

In fact, in a thread which asked if others were athiests and if so why, you - a self-proclaimed non-atheist - were there for no reason other than to harrass me.

Posting in a thread with which you disagree is standard Orgite practice. Happens all the time.

Thread: who believes in God? Reply: you religious folks are delusional
Thread: who hates Christmas? Reply: Merry Christmas
Thread: who likes Pink Floyd? Reply: Pink Floyd sucks.
Thread: who is ready for (American) football/soccer season? Reply: football/soccer is boring. Soccer/football is the real sport.
Thread: any fans of Tolkien out there? Reply: Tolkien stinks.
...and so it goes.

It is a bit of a pet peeve of mine, but any topic which is created for the sole purpose of discussion amongst like-minded people always gets crashed by those who feel differently. So instead of having a stimulating discussion with those who share your interest, you end up arguing with those who feel quite the opposite. 'Tis the nature of the beast.

As for these kinds of patron/moderator disputes, they almost always play out the same. It gets distrubingly predictable.

You're a triggerhappy stupid person with too much time on your hands, get a life!

"triggerhappy stupid person"? Come on Mith, you know it's always the "Nazi on a power trip" label.

[Redleg]

Redleg, in that very same thread, you claimed to be there solely for the purpose of harrassing me. You stated as such. You posted nothing in the thread on topic. In fact, in a thread which asked if others were athiests and if so why, you - a self-proclaimed non-atheist - were there for no reason other than to harrass me. Your presence in this thread also has no point other than to harrass me. Just shut up. You're one of the people that the supposedly fair moderators allow to get away with things like the above. Even when you admit doing it, as you did here. Did you see me in the "Is anyone else a Christian" thread harrassing other people? No. I would have no business posting in that thread. And yet, you get away with such things and think you're special because of it.

Ah you still don't get it do you?

Because the moderators will not inform you of any alert or warning others recieve, Aenlic I got the just deserved rebuttal from the moderators for my actions. The moderators do not inform you on what actions they take on others, if you engaged your grey matter just a tad bit more you would of figured that point out.

And that's all I have to say on the matter. Continue allowing Redleg to harrass other members with whom he disagrees, and others of his ilk who do the same, even after admitting it like rEdleg did. Continue promoting people who misuse their positions and engage in open hypocrisy. It really doesn't matter.

Lets see whats the old adage that fits this bill. The pot calling the Kettle black.

Malcolm! You need to lighten up! I am just jerking your chain.

[econ21]

Aenlic, my understanding is that the Watchtower is a place to discuss Org policy. If you want to appeal about a particular warning rather than discuss policy, I would raise it first with the moderator and then with an admin. If a warning is not of general significance, I don't see why you need to make a public debate about it. The current tendency of people to start threads here about warning points for naughty words etc is just silly.

Unfortunately, this thread is not about an issue of policy and so also falls into the "just silly" category. Your argument against your alert is:

In what way did my post say X-citizens are stupid or Y-citizens are cowardly? You can jump to all the conclusions you wish. My post was an attempt at humor about a TV station. How you get from there to country bashing is a truly prodigious feat of conclusion leaping.

I am sorry, but that argument is just absurd. You got your alert for this:

But the real question is how long before they capitulate in the face of competition?

This "joke" is not even an attempt at a joke without its premise being the implict country-bashing assumption that French citizens are cowardly. Without such a premise, the above sentence is incomprehensible. Why should a broadcasting station capitulate? The fact that the sentence is still almost incomprehensible even with such an assumption merely shows it is not even redeemed by genuine humour.

If your claim is that you did not "say" the French are cowardly and so can't have been bashing them, then you are just being obtuse. I could post similar country bashing "jokes" based on the premise that X-citizens are stupid, dirty, money-grubbing, have large genitalia etc. The fact that I would not actually say that X-citizens have such characteristics would not make such garbage any more acceptable, nor mean I was innocent of country bashing.

No disrespect, but you are wasting our time.

[Ser Clegane]

Clegane admits that his insult wasn't even veiled

I stand by my statement that personally attacking people - be it other patrons or moderators - indicates a lack of manners with respect to the conduct on this board.
In your opening post you primarily played the man not the ball.
The Watchtower and its Backroom subforum are meant to talk about forum policies - not to just blow of steam and make personal attacks.

It is interesting that on one hand you consider the statements in your opening post to be criticism, while on the other hand you consider my response to it to be an insult.

And it's sheer hypocrisy of Ser Clegane to make statements regarding me personally attacking other patrons when I've never done so except in response to an initiation by the other party,

What falls within the scope of your definition of "initiation by the other party"?

[Fragony]

Camalboy getting a beating again? At first I thought he doesn't like me, but now I realise that he is a very consistent moderator that doesn't like me

*cough* youtube *cough*