My opinion on the state of MP

[ElmarkOFear]

I have been playing a few games this week and I now believe I can form an opinion on MP:

It appears many are taking 8 to 12 cav armies consisting of a General Bodyguard, 4 to 6 missile cav, and 3 or 4 light cav, a couple heavy cav and the rest archers and dismounted knight units. This may, at first, seem like a mixed and balanced army, but it is a little deceptive.

The majority of games, I played in, centered around cav battles and charges into foot units. Missile units and foot units entered very seldom into the outcome of a battle. Personally, I have never liked mostly cav battles much and it is one reason I stopped playing MTW for awhile. M2TW is similar to MTW in that respect. To help alleviate battles from playing the same, I believe a few tweaks should be done.

1. Spear units should be able to kill several cav units quickly, after the cav's initial charge is finished and before the cav can withdraw. However, I think the sword vs. spear bonus is what may have broken this rock/paper/scizzors effect. Once the cav finishes its charge, it breaks out the sword to fight with. I believe the sword vs. spear bonus kicks in then and keeps the spear units from killing many of the cav before they can disengage. I am not sure how to best make the change to spear units to acheive this though. You could change the "vs. cav" bonus, the defensive values, or the attack values of spear units, but which would work best or what combination?

2. I believe the cav charge is fine the way it is. If it is changed to make it easier and more automatic to use, then it will tip the balance too much in the cav's favor and MP may become extremely predictable, with even less units being used than in STW days. With STW, you may have had only 9 different units (or so), but you could upgrade them in so many ways, you actually had more unique unit strengths available to you than the current TW games.

3. Missile units are varied and seem about right in their killing ability, however, they are extremely expensive, which would be fine in the case of those special archer units which have good attack/defensive values, but not for those archer units which are weak in hand-to-hand.

4. Upgrades are also very expensive for the extra power you might be getting. I haven't noticed too much of a difference in success between an upgraded unit and its non-upgraded version. The +1 to attack and defense isn't enough considering the attack/defense numbers are now in the 10 to 20 range for a lot of units. Maybe change the cost, or change the additional power to +2 for each upgrade level. This would add some variance and make upgrades worth the expense. It may also take care of the slight cav imbalance, allowing you to upgrade your spear units to be able to effectively fight cav.

That is all I have for now. I will add/change my opinions as I play more and become familiar with the ins and outs of the new battle engine.

[t1master]

i thought they were tossing unit upgrades out the window for this version. at ten k, with most factions, you can just barley pick 20 units, with little left over to pump. some factions you can't even field 20 units with ten k. i sorta like that and am not in favor of upgrading any units.

interesting point about the cav switching to swords/secondary weapons after the charge. can ca comment on that?

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

very Intersting El. I seen many armies use 6-10 cav, and dismounted knights, OR,
they use Dismounted Knights, Some Fedual Cavarly with some Light Cav, ethier Missle or Light Melee, Like Alans, and about at least 4-8 Muskeeters (4-6 is standed, but I seen 8-10 :() and those Musketeers I tend to be a alirgnt missle unit, but they kill my HA in CC so fast, it's not funny.

[Fenix7]

and am not in favor of upgrading any units.

I support you here. I dislike upgreads as well.

[Orda Khan]

Interesting points about cav, Elmo.
On the whole, I see a lot of what I disliked about MTW. There are some additions, certain things have changed slightly but still it comes back to faction imbalance. I still don't know whether I want to buy this game

.........Orda

[Lusted]

I'd wait for patches if you are only interested in mp Orda. Im trying to get CA to listen to my ideas for balancing units(increased cost of cavalry, spearmen strnger against cav), i've even sent them a modified edu to see ifthey will test it and see.

[Cheetah]

The majority of games, I played in, centered around cav battles and charges into foot units. Missile units and foot units entered very seldom into the outcome of a battle. Personally, I have never liked mostly cav battles much and it is one reason I stopped playing MTW for awhile. M2TW is similar to MTW in that respect.

I think this is expected on flat grassy maps. However, if one picks a map with terrain/forrest on it then the situation will change IMO. I know that some people are horrified by the idea of fighting on a hilly/forrested map; or in and around a village, but I think it is a bad habit picked up during rtw (due to cav spamming and terrible maps). I think if someone picks a terrain that favours infantry, then surprise of surprises, you will see more infantry.

ps. it is true that there are too few good maps