My opinion on the state of MP

**t1master** · 12-09-2006, 14:38

i thought they were tossing unit upgrades out the window for this version. at ten k, with most factions, you can just barley pick 20 units, with little left over to pump. some factions you can't even field 20 units with ten k. i sorta like that and am not in favor of upgrading any units.

interesting point about the cav switching to swords/secondary weapons after the charge. can ca comment on that?

**ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88** · 12-09-2006, 16:29

very Intersting El. I seen many armies use 6-10 cav, and dismounted knights, OR,
they use Dismounted Knights, Some Fedual Cavarly with some Light Cav, ethier Missle or Light Melee, Like Alans, and about at least 4-8 Muskeeters (4-6 is standed, but I seen 8-10 :() and those Musketeers I tend to be a alirgnt missle unit, but they kill my HA in CC so fast, it's not funny.

**Fenix7** · 12-09-2006, 17:37

and am not in favor of upgrading any units.

I support you here. I dislike upgreads as well.

**Orda Khan** · 12-09-2006, 21:18

Interesting points about cav, Elmo.
On the whole, I see a lot of what I disliked about MTW. There are some additions, certain things have changed slightly but still it comes back to faction imbalance. I still don't know whether I want to buy this game

.........Orda

**Lusted** · 12-10-2006, 00:32

I'd wait for patches if you are only interested in mp Orda. Im trying to get CA to listen to my ideas for balancing units(increased cost of cavalry, spearmen strnger against cav), i've even sent them a modified edu to see ifthey will test it and see.

**ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88** · 12-10-2006, 00:59

I doubt CA will test it (if they can't make MTW2 like STW or Orginial MTW MP,that it's no use). But worth a shot anyhow..

**ElmarkOFear** · 12-10-2006, 04:55

I like the way upgrades are handled as well. I only mentioned allowing the upgrade of spears to one or two extra levels to help offset the cav problem. I DO congratulate CA on coming up with a neat way to handle upgrades and keeping them from unbalancing MP. They just need to balance MP altogether now . . LOL :) Though it isn't quite as bad as that may sound. hehe

The big problem is the costs are all taken from the SP game. I have always pushed CA to separate the stats into SP and MP, so a change to one will not adversely affect the other. Not sure why they won't do that. They could then balance just the SP campaign (since that is their focus anyways) and leave the MP balancing to the community and release it as a separate "unofficial" community MP patch. They wouldn't even have to beta test it. Just offer it along with the SP patch. A simple solution that would just require a change to one line of code in the executable for the game and a duplicate stat file. It would go a long way in helping those who want to mod the MP side of the game and not the SP.

Plus, as we all know, it is extremely hard to get a majority of players to download a "mod", but call it a "patch" instead and have it next to the official SP "patch" and everyone will download it and play it online.

I have been looking into the cav thing and the problem isn't as much the cav killing so many on contact (some will argue that that is the way it should be for cav), but it is the cost for these units are too little (especially for the light cav units such as merchant militia cav, militia cav etc . .) Their charge value is much less (2) than the heavy knight units (8) yet they kill just as easily in a charge. I don't think that any unarmored cav unit, should be able to be used as a steamroller like the heavy knight units. It is obvious a change in the charge value doesn't much effect a cav unit's ability to kill foot units on contact, so I am not sure how this charge value is used in the battle calculations. There must be something else which determines such. I wonder if you can change a cav unit's charge value to a negative? If you could, then you could keep changing it into the negative until you see a change in killing rate. Then you could do this for all non-armored cav. I do not think non-armored cav were used to charge foot units (especially spear units). I believe they were used to cut down routing men, or to flank enemy units already engaged and cut them down (not run them down).

So here is what I would propose to do, but not sure how it is to be done:

1. Make armored cav more expensive (the more armor the more expensive).
2. Change the value which determines the killing rate of cav charges for unarmored cav units until it reduces the "initial contact" killing rate and makes it unwise to use those units on foot units. Most of the killing from unarmored cav should be from spears and swords not the charge.
3. Give every faction at least one heavy cav unit and a spear unit which has the ability to defend against a heavy cav rush.

I think this would create a much better MP experience and get rid of a big imbalance in the MP game.

I haven't had the time to look into handgunners? Or is it Musketeers? Arquebusiers? Or all gunpowder foot units? Let me know and I will do some tests.

Well I am off to bed. Been a long day. The wife went through 5 hours of dentistry (under sedation) and I was there the whole day and have been taking care of her at home. Though I must admit, my kids have been well-behaved today and a joy to be around. :)

If I can't sleep, I will be online in the MP lobby playing a few games, trying out gunpowder units to see what the problem is. If anyone can explain it to me I will test it a bit online and through custom battles to see if I might be able to figure it out.

Somebody have a contact for Palamedes? I believe he said to email him with such things. We may want to give him the above perception of the problem so CA doesn't decide to "fix" the cav charge problem and make them even MORE imbalanced.