Spawning Rebels

[Kugutsu]

I think I remember reading some discussion a while back which said it should be possible in 0.8 to get rid of spawning rebel armies popping up all over the place. Is this possible, and if so, how?

[BozosLiveHere]

You can't get completely rid of them, but you can make them less likely to show up. Open EB\Data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign\descr_strat.txt and search for the brigand_spawn_value line. The closest this number is to 100 the less frequent brigand spawns will be.

[Kugutsu]

Thanks.
One more question. Will this work with already started campaigns, or do I have to start a new campaign to see the effect?

[Dram]

i set mine to 99999 and there hasnt been a single rebel spawn on the whole map so far

im not sure if it works with saved campaigns, but you could find out by making the change then loading it, typing 'toggle_fow' in the command frame (~) so you can see the whole map, then doing a few turns while looking around to see if theres any new rebels.

[Birka Viking]

I wonder if EB team will fix the rebel spawns to the next beta?? Beocuse as it is now they are everywhere...

[Arawn]

Could the spawned rebel armies not always be huge all skirmisher armies (as is often the case in some parts of the map)? They are a right pain in the arse to deal with, and not in a challenging way, but in a "christ, not again" kind of way.

[Zaknafien]

i usually auto-win those fools. more of a nuisance than anything.

[Arawn]

Auto-battle is very inefficient though, hell the AI even manages to lose sometimes.

[Tiberius Nero]

Well, not with skirmishers, they are hugely underestimated powerwise in autoresolve.

[Dayve]

Usually i hate rebel popups with a passion, but since i started my newest Roman campaign i've had two full legions... One in the north and one in the south... The one in the south is fighting its ass off with the Carthies and rebel cities, but the northern one doesn't see any action due to the northern provinces being rebel and never moving... So i use the northern one to auto-resolve the popup rebels, then retrain it in a city that needs population trimming... You should see all the experience my northern legion has from killing popup rebels... Jupiter help whoever has to fight that legion in the future.

But once my empire gets large i will definately be changing the calue to 9999 like i always do.

[Dooz]

But once my empire gets large i will definately be changing the calue to 9999 like i always do.

Might not work in the middle of a campaign. I had forgotten to adjust the level before I started my Carthy campaign. I did so a few years into it, but I can't be sure it's working. African rebels are the worst too, Numidian cavalry and skirmishers, tons of them, in the middle of the deserts, you don't even see them slowly eating away at your economy. Phooey!

[Gazius]

Is there any chance of officially raising the number closer to 100? I tried a quick campaign on VH, and I liked how aggressive the rebels were, but there were so many that it seemed ridiculous.

[Zaknafien]

no i mean i use auto-win not auto-resolve. just to get rid of a riduculous army of skirimishers wandering around the map.

[nikolai1962]

The rebel cities in EB are building units so a lot of the rebel armies you see aren't pop-up ones.

The stacks that are all one type of unit especially. These are much more likely to be rebel-city recruited stacks than pop-up rebels as the pop-up rebels are spawned from a list with a variety of units the game randomly picks.

If you have a spy near a rebel city you'll see it happening. The garrison gradually gets bigger and then when the city is full the units are built outside instead and a new stack gradually builds up.

[Kugutsu]

Yeah I noticed that. I am playing a Hayasdan game, and sent an army to check out Trabezond (sp) near the start - it had about 5 units, but a notice popped up telling me I would start a war with KH if i attacked, so I decided not to bother. I came back about 20 years later with an army of 6 units - 2 generals, a mad asabara, 2 steppe horse archers and an armenian horse archer, to find that the city had been busy building units like the apocalypse was coming (which it was ). Tons of peltasts, slingers, milita hoplites, classical hoplites, pontic spearmen, thanvabera archers, pantopodai of course and even some helenic cavalry. To the extent that a second stack was sitting next to the city. Ok, my thoughts at this point were along the lines of 'Oh c***', but since I had sent my army right up without checking, I couldnt run away, so I attacked anyway. And won! Not only won, I got a heroic victory, killed about 1600 with only about 70 losses.

Anyway, my point is the AI seems a lot better at building a range of units now. But its still not very good with them. If you have vast numerical superiority, it makes no sense at all to spread them out and send them one by one when you are defending against an enemy with superior manouverability. If they had sat still and waited, supporting their ranged units with their spearmen, I would have been wiped out. My horsearchers wouldnt have had the ammo to even make a dent in an army that size. As it was, they sent in their slingers first - alone, which my mad asabaras and generals took care of. Then a few pantopodai and pontic spearmen, while the helenic cavalry tried to flank me - my archers took out the spearmen, while my generals took out the cavalry. That left a load of peltasts and a couple of units of thanvabera archers, which I could also deal with piecemeal. Oh, and the hoplites were just running in circles in phalanx mode, trying in vain to catch my cavalry... Im not complaining, I got a nice victory, and it was a fun battle, but it seems a bit dumb of the AI...

[Arawn]

The stacks that are all one type of unit especially. These are much more likely to be rebel-city recruited stacks than pop-up rebels as the pop-up rebels are spawned from a list with a variety of units the game randomly picks.

Even when they appear out of thin air in the middle of your territory?
In my experience, rebel village produced armies are more varied.

[Obelics]

well rebel are usefull at the starting of your game to train your troop and get chevrons, i like the actual rebels spawning.
again they add a strategic point to your game, you have to build watch towers to trace them, and to control they dont obstruct trade routs. And they also often block your path, so this is another strategic nice point to manage with.

i think no rebels = more boring campaign map.

they are in th EB features, and you have to take them as they are. (i consider to reduce rebel spawning as to cheat...)

[Foot]

You must remember that rebel spawning drastically increases when you put up the taxes. Only put up the taxes of your cities when you are gearing up for war and need to support a larger army. When I have my cities all on normal taxes I hardly every get rebel spawns.

Foot

[Arawn]

Oh bloody marvalous. As the cassae (sp?) i get a fat 7 unit stack of skirmishers, and the Cassae don't appear to have a viable counter for them.
Why are the spawend armies overwleminly skirmishers?
What determines the sort of armies that are spawned? Vanilla seems to produce much more balanced ones.
Or at the very least give the Cassae some sort of basic cavalry to counter them. The general chariots drop dead before they get their first round of missiles off.

i think no rebels = more boring campaign map.

Couldn't agree more, they are a part of the game, they add flavour and are historicly realistic. But at the moment it seems broke somehow. I mean skirmishers all the time is boring, and a royal pain in the arse if you don't have a decent counter.

[Aks K]

no i mean i use auto-win not auto-resolve. just to get rid of a riduculous army of skirimishers wandering around the map.

What is the difference between auto-win and auto-resolve?

Aks K

[Fleeb]

Or at the very least give the Cassae some sort of basic cavalry to counter them. The general chariots drop dead before they get their first round of missiles off.

Quoted for extreme truthification. Casse generals are beyond useless.

[Conqueror]

You must remember that rebel spawning drastically increases when you put up the taxes. Only put up the taxes of your cities when you are gearing up for war and need to support a larger army. When I have my cities all on normal taxes I hardly every get rebel spawns.

Foot

But then how do you prevent massive population explosion? I didn't build any farms upgrades in Kart-Hadast and the city still went all the way up to 40,000+ before the growth finally stopped. If it wasn't for the fact that I have taxes to the max, it would prolly be 60,000+ by now. Granted, it's my capital so not a problem to control but there are other cities getting way big, such as Syrakousai.

[Dayve]

Quoted for extreme truthification. Casse generals are beyond useless.

Of course they are... They were useless in real life too back then, just like every other unit they had, using outdated weapons and no armour, except for rich nobles which might have had a shirt of chainmail and a decent helmet... Much the same as every other barbarian in Europe, they made a line of men and charged it at the enemy with no thought of real tactics, which is why it was the Romans, Greeks and Carthies who had the most influence on the ancient world, and not the British, Gallic, Germanic or Spanish.

Having said that though, rebels in my Roman campaign are actually quite balanced... In southern Italy anyway. In SI, when they pop up, it's usually 6 units of Samnites, which are a pain in the behind, and even some cavalry or skirmishers... Northern Italy is different however... When they popup here it's ALWAYS 3 units of velites and one unit of Polybian equittes, which is funny considering the year is only 255BC.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Of course they are... They were useless in real life too back then, just like every other unit they had, using outdated weapons and no armour, except for rich nobles which might have had a shirt of chainmail and a decent helmet... Much the same as every other barbarian in Europe, they made a line of men and charged it at the enemy with no thought of real tactics, which is why it was the Romans, Greeks and Carthies who had the most influence on the ancient world, and not the British, Gallic, Germanic or Spanish.

I won't even lower myself to waste time on a reply, but surelly Anthony will.

[Arawn]

Of course they are... They were useless in real life too back then, just like every other unit they had, using outdated weapons and no armour, except for rich nobles which might have had a shirt of chainmail and a decent helmet... Much the same as every other barbarian in Europe, they made a line of men and charged it at the enemy with no thought of real tactics, which is why it was the Romans, Greeks and Carthies who had the most influence on the ancient world, and not the British, Gallic, Germanic or Spanish.

Of course. And when ever some peeved off guys challenged the leader of a barbarian tribe, the leader just rolled over and died. Hmm, maybe we should introduce a 'roll over and die' speacial ability for them?

And in S. Italy i usualy get Greek skirmishers for some reason :(
Always the bloody skirmishers.
Samites are more Central Italy material IIRC.

[Conqueror]

Dayve is really living up to his forum title, it seems

[Slider6977]

Oh bloody marvalous. As the cassae (sp?) i get a fat 7 unit stack of skirmishers, and the Cassae don't appear to have a viable counter for them.
Why are the spawend armies overwleminly skirmishers?
What determines the sort of armies that are spawned? Vanilla seems to produce much more balanced ones.
Or at the very least give the Cassae some sort of basic cavalry to counter them. The general chariots drop dead before they get their first round of missiles off.



Couldn't agree more, they are a part of the game, they add flavour and are historicly realistic. But at the moment it seems broke somehow. I mean skirmishers all the time is boring, and a royal pain in the arse if you don't have a decent counter.

Suprised no one suggested this yet, but if you go to the descr_rebel_factions.txt in the data folder, you can adjust what type of rebel units spawn in which area. You can get rid of all those skirmisher armies and make them infantry-based spawning rebels.

I use this to get rid of Carthaginian citizen militia spawning in the my Kart home provinces, as I find it unrealistic that my Carth citizens are revolting, and more realistic that it is my iberian units (essentially mercenaries from historic perspective). Therefore the rebel armies in carthage are a mix of numidian cavalry (as much as I may want to, I wont remove these for history's sake) and skirmishers, and iberian milites and caetrati.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

But then how do you prevent massive population explosion? I didn't build any farms upgrades in Kart-Hadast and the city still went all the way up to 40,000+ before the growth finally stopped. If it wasn't for the fact that I have taxes to the max, it would prolly be 60,000+ by now. Granted, it's my capital so not a problem to control but there are other cities getting way big, such as Syrakousai.

I agree. I have taxes at very high at all times. And I don't do it to be oppressive, or even for the money. I have to do all I can to stop population growth and squallor.

[Geoffrey S]

Of course they are... They were useless in real life too back then, just like every other unit they had, using outdated weapons and no armour, except for rich nobles which might have had a shirt of chainmail and a decent helmet... Much the same as every other barbarian in Europe, they made a line of men and charged it at the enemy with no thought of real tactics, which is why it was the Romans, Greeks and Carthies who had the most influence on the ancient world, and not the British, Gallic, Germanic or Spanish.

How you can still believe this after playing EB I don't know. Regardless, I recommend you read a bit more about 'barbaric' peoples next time before making such sweeping generalisations.

[nikolai1962]

Even when they appear out of thin air in the middle of your territory?
In my experience, rebel village produced armies are more varied.

I guess the factions I've tried the regions must have a varied list for the pop-ups while the local towns have only one unit they can build or something as it's been mainly single-type stacks from the cities and more varied from the pop-ups. Maybe varies across the map. Main point though is the large total number of rebels in EB is more to do with the cities building them.

I quite like being a bit scared of the rebels for a change but I definitely think both kinds of rebel stack should have less skirmishers in them as they are a total pain to chase if you can't auto-calc. In my modded version of rtr i made all the rebel units be the weakest spear unit in that area instead. At least they stand still.