Am i the only one who sees this

[calithian]

First i would like to say congrats to CA for doing the best job they could to make this game absolutely horrible in MP. I would like to thank for not beta testing this game before making it. If you guys did beta test it then you should all be fired. This is the worst total war game yet. You guys have single handedly created MP lobbies with no one in them. I can give a list of games that are a decade old that have a better MP than this. I am sure you all are thinking "It will be fixed in the patch" You are kidding yourselves. I dont think you guys have the capacity to fix this game. Look at what you sold to the public!!!! You should give everyone a refund that bought this game because you know that you are not going to fix a thing.



Congrats guys
please feel free to contact me via email
geoff4jc@adelphia.net

[ElmarkOFear]

Being bitter doesn't really help much in getting CA's attention to your thoughts and ideas. If you think the MP is lousy, please state why. Many others here have provided their own thoughts (myself included) as to why MP is inferior to STW/MTW's MP and also as to where the game is imbalanced and possible solutions.

It is much easier to complain, to relieve dissappointment, than it is to give thought as to what is necessary to change the game to one's liking, but the extra effort will be rewarded with at least a serious discussion of the matter rather than being overlooked as another useless post which just takes up space.

PS: If your problems are balance issues then the community can make changes to fix it. The only thing we will need do is convince CA to offer it on their official site and then to get the MP community to play it. Unfortunately, the way things are set up changes to balance MP normally create imbalances to SP. This means rather than a "patch" it has to be a "mod" and historically it has been difficult to get a large group of MP players to download and play a mod.

If your problem is with the MP interface, lobby, lack of features which were in past games, lag, disconnects or game mechanics such as camera views and army controls, then those are all items which only CA can repair. Since CA doesn't consider the MP community that large compared to its SP base, you will find they will work on changes to SP before changes to MP.

So if you REALLY want your ideas to be even slightly considered by CA, then it would behoove you to stop insulting those you seek to make those changes. Civil persuasion is what has helped, in the past, to get changes important to the MP community.

Also, please notice I did not have to resort to insults, personal attacks, nor chastising, to explain how to persuade those responsible to make changes to the game.

[YellowMelon]

Elmark, your methods are noble but have we seen anything ever done in the past by CA? We begged throughout RTW for CA to make changes and they never did. There were ample discussions and even consensus to a small degree on what needed to be changed, but nothing ever happened. Debate is all we can do, because CA never listens. People have prayed and hoped that they would finally do something good with TW and they havent, in fact they botched it severely. I find it odd that games that are abandonware (like wolfenstein et) have less bugs, better online playability, and thus have more multiplayer followings. M2TW is a piece of trash unless you like the sp which is just ok.

[ElmarkOFear]

To answer your question: Yes, during the MTW days, the MP community came together and produced a long list of bugs as well as wishes for the patch being worked on. It was presented to CA, in a civil manner without any accusations, and quite a few of the changes were made. So THAT is what I am basing my current opinions on. With RTW, I disliked the MP game so much I sold my game back after the first week and have just returned to playing MP with M2TW, so I cannot say what exactly happened then, since I wasn't around.

I do know that posts like the above have never had any effect on getting changes made. Even worse, posts such as the above have had a negative effect. It is one of the reasons CA doesn't participate in the forums much, nor give any information out until the last minute. They have been burned more than once, by the community and have developed a stubborn attitude because of it.


My point is: Angry posts just take up space better served by civil discussions on the shortcomings of the current game. Whether CA takes our advice and changes the game is a moot point. We cannot do anything to persuade them to make changes other than present ideas in a short, concise manner after our discussions and hope CA can see the logic behind doing so. Making accusations, insinuating that CA programmers are lazy or incompetent is only serving to insure CA will ignore such discussions and change what they think needs to be changed without any input from the community.

What is it you do not like about the current M2TW MP to make you consider it "trash"?

For me, I consider it inferior to STW/MTW MP because of those things listed in my first post. You missed a really vibrant MP community which lasted for over 4 years until RTW was released. RTW's MP was put together during the very last week before release and not much thought was put into features etc . . I know this because I was a mod/admin at the .com forums and read posts by CA staff which was discussing such and it was obvious they had just begun work on it. I think you would have really enjoyed the STW/MTW MP days. There were ladders, clan competitions, leagues, tournaments, and so many team games available any time of day or night, you would never have to wait to play. Plus the MP lobbies were much better than the current setup.

STW's MP was run off a dedicated EA server and it had passwordable private chat rooms, permanent ban and ignore functions, and really added to the atmosphere of the game.

MTW's MP was very much similar to STW's except there were no longer any passwordable, private chat rooms, and the game was now an Activision product. However, it WAS run on a GameSpy server like those today. I am not sure how many people realized this, since the MP lobby was set up to look like part of MTW's game (just like STW) and not as some generic-looking MP lobby. It too, added much atmosphere to the game. So play MTW's MP to see exactly what a GameSpy lobby could look like and what features it could have, if CA wanted to put the time into it. I am not sure, but the original programmer for the MP lobbies may have moved on to another job or another position within CA. I miss his work. It was excellent.

RTW's and M2TW's lobbies were both done at the end of the games' development, right before release. I think that is why they decided to go with the standard generic lobby setup and not one which looks like a part of the existing game. There isn't a permanent ban or ignore function, and the game info. has some important info. missing (which was there for STW/MTW). The importance of a permanent ban/ignore function is it allowed for the community to police itself. Those players who were there just to cause problems, could be ignored permanently and also be banned permanently from your hosted games. This kept a lot of players in line and prevented one person from ruining a whole server's worth of MP games.

All we can do is reqest CA makes changes to these lobbies and hope they make it a priority for the patch.

Hope this helps explain my views a bit better. :)

[Orda Khan]

All your points are valid, Elmo. The problem is that we really don't see much emphasis on MP, never have and IMO never will. There was plenty of feedback about the state of MP in RTW, polite or otherwise but we saw little response. We were told by CA that M2TW MP would receive significant improvement and it hasn't. To anyone who remembers the lobbies you mention and the activity, it is hardly surprising that people vent their frustration.
M2TW is the only game in the series that I did not buy on release, I still haven't bought it. My trust has been broken and I feel genuinely sorry for those who spent a lot of money upgrading their PC's in anticipation of a game that promised so much

......Orda

[Fenix7]

Elmo, you were missed since the end of .NET and you only made a post or two on this forums since RTW was released.Good to see you back and even if this is only for a while.

[|Heerbann|_Di3Hard]

My trust has been broken and I feel genuinely sorry for those who spent a lot of money upgrading their PC's in anticipation of a game that promised so much

......Orda

Thank you. I will wait for a patch and if the patch is(n't) as expected I sell the game on ebay. I have bought hardware for 300 euro, that I can use for other games.

[Fenix7]

I have bought hardware for 300 euro, that I can use for other games.

Why people need to stress this so often? Why to point out something what is clear enough? If you have good PC combo it is obvious that you can use it for other games or programs if you want do that..or is this not obvious? Don't get me wrong. Let me first explain myself befor you are going to take this personal.

I remember how it was when RTW was released. I was the same. I was hoping that there will be improvements and when I've realized that game engine is as it is and that there are no other posibilities my post became very aggressive. RTW was as it was. Many trashed it (I was no exception) and constantly mentioning how many better games are out there. This is probably due the issue that those who liked STW and MTW were annoyed that RTW is not what it should have been. Frustration and anger have appeared. All we were able to do was that we have expressed our unsatisfaction with the way how RTW was made. Ironicaly those posts and ciritcs have not changed RTW. Infact situation would remain the same if we would spare ourselves our time we had spent writting all those posts.

I remember what Elmo did, like few others as well. I remember he posted his opinion about RTW and sold the game. And that's was it. He was not bothered with futher discussion how RTW should have been, what has been done, criticizing, etc. He simply moved along.

From my personal view on MTW2 is that it is improvedt compared to RTW. Patch could make it a lot better and let's us see what is going to happen. On the other way if you don't like the game, fine with me. If you want to play other games ok with that. I just know I'm not going over the same process I've went through after RTW was out. If I won't like MTW2 after the patch I will sold it and won't spent any more time on this forums posting comments how MTW2 should have been made and what else there is on the market or I will continue to play it. Simple as that.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Argeed. or How can I say it bluntly?

Alright, I started to play MP on VI in March 2004,nice year to do MP. I remember how all my buds (unpatched server,mind you), are so excited about RTW, and we never thought "well,what happens if RTW MP isn't good?". So RTW came out at end of Setember, and would't you know, RTW MP was horrible? So all 40+ people on the unpatched server, expect for me and handful of other people (Some of them you know,Relok,Warlord,Pie-Eater,etc..) left TW or Left RTW MP and just Moved on without complaining. So Did alot of you guys. Just Said what was wrong with the game and moved on. Why? Because if CA doesn't care enough to actually fix the bugs or at least make MP somewhat enjoyable, then no sense of playing MTW2. Don't Need to Leave the Communtiy because of a game like RTw or MTW2, because you can always do STW fakeserver or MTW then,or post here, but,that what I think..

[ElmarkOFear]

I've always wondered if Fakeserver works for MTW/RTW/M2TW? :)

I DO understand everyone's frustration . . TRUST ME! hehe, but posting here in the manner of the original poster, is punishing the innocent forum patrons more than CA. CA will just overlook those posts, so one accomplish nothing, but moving good topics off of the first page of this section.

Some patrons like the game and do not think the aforementioned problems are critical enough to ruin their enjoyment. It's not that they are wrong, they just play for a different set of reasons.

I am sure they really tire of reading through posts which provide nothing to the discussions but a flaming of CA. CA KNOWS how the MP community feels, they just either can do nothing about it (due to upper-level decision-makers) or they have already been scheduled to do other work. I remember during STW days, the patches (after the first) were completed on the programmers' own time (unpaid). They were still blasted by some in the MP community for the few problems they didn't take care of. Ever since, I believe nobody at CA has been willing to put forth their own time to work on a patch, which the MP community would only get angry over and have harsh words for them in the forums.

However, I am the first to be critical of the game, if I find a problem. But I am willing to discuss it first with others to at least try to find a solution to speed the process up for a patch. So feel free to complain, but provide some good input so a discussion can happen.

[Lusted]

Well guys im not sure what is it worth, but i've been trying to balance unit stats in the export_descr_unit.txt file, and i've sent the file off to CA with a request for them to at least test it, as i think that modders have much more time to spend on fiddly little balncing and testing units than CA does, as im sure that atm they're working on bug fixes.

I hope they at least test the file i sent them, and hpefully they will take some of my changes on board, but who knows.

[Orda Khan]

Lusted, I commend you for trying. It sounds like you are on to something as well. We need CA to stamp fixes like this or they will never be accepted and I am sure the community could iron out gameplay for a decent MP. I don't know what it is about the MP community but Mods have never been accepted by more than a handful of players

......Orda

[Lusted]

Lusted, I commend you for trying. It sounds like you are on to something as well. We need CA to stamp fixes like this or they will never be accepted and I am sure the community could iron out gameplay for a decent MP. I don't know what it is about the MP community but Mods have never been accepted by more than a handful of players

My view on this is that modders generally have the time/will to make the small changes needed for a good balance, we probably have more time than CA to work on this stuff as wel as they will likely be bug fixing atm. So im trying to get CA to realise that using modder balanced files could help improve the balance of the game for both mp and sp. Im hoping they will listen to me.

[calithian]

ELMARK
fortunately i play this game for fun...i am not the one who was in any way shape or form involved in making it. If it is my job to spend a whole weekendand more figuring out how to fix the game then i would expect a paycheck for that. If you wouldnt, then perhaps you should join a socialist government of some sort.

I did give you some solutions. FIRE EVERY IDIOT AT CA WHO ALLOWED THIS TO GO BACK WITH GAME SPY. there ya go. When i dont do my job properly i am told by my boss to fix something. He does not sit there and hold my hand through the process. Is that what you are suggesting? Thats what it sounded like. You would like me to come up with solutions that will be a waste of my time. I did my part and bought the game, now they can do theirs and remove their heads from that dark place between their legs and give the people what they have payed for

[Cheetah]

ELMARK
I did give you some solutions. FIRE EVERY IDIOT AT CA WHO ALLOWED THIS TO GO BACK WITH GAME SPY.

You know very well that this is not a solution.

Also we still do not know what is your exact problem.

[ElmarkOFear]

My, my, so much anger from such a young person. Makes one wonder why one went through the new patron waiting period, just to post such a message in the main forum.

Unwilling to try and persuade CA to make changes so one can enjoy the game, yet so willing to waste so much time ranting about in anger at the "establishment". Looks like big, bad CA has won again. Forcing customers to tell them how horrible their game is and forcing them to guess what exactly is so horrible about the game: That will teach CA to mess with us!

Patrons: "Yeah fix this game!"
CA staff: "Wonder what it is he wants to be fixed?"
Patrons: "I'm not going to help you. I've already done my part!"
CA staff: "Wonder if I dated him in a past life? He sure does sound a lot like my old girlfriend."
Patrons: "You guys are idiots!"
CA staff: "Yup, has to be an old girlfriend reincarnated just to persecute me in this life."


Drivel, such as the above, has no room in this section of the forum. It isn't about TW, it is about "supposed" revenge against an uncaring CA. Unfortunately, it is at the expense of patrons who see other more relevant and constructive discussions shoved off to page 2 of the forum listings to make room for this nonsense. Amazing the lengths some trolls will go to.

[calithian]

Elmark,
i am lost for words. Have you played this game? I dont think you have. Let me guess. You are one of the Harry Potter clanmates who create the mods like Napolianic? Do you have to sell used cars and worship in the woods? So that would mean you dont care about MP anyway would it not?
Let me give a brief list of things that could only have dirived from CA not testing the game properly. 1. Cav response is a joke. By this i mean that they dont respond when given a command. Sometimes they will attack a unit with only half of the men while the other half march on to another location. How did they miss this? It happens in 90% of the games.
2. Missle response is quite similar. Muskets and other missle units will not always attack a unit with missles when in rage of fire. Instead they run at that unit and attempt a melee. This makes it hard to micro manage everything on the map. I cant skirmish or use HA properly if i have to babysit archers to make sure they dont run into the enemy line instead of shooting at them.
3. Gamespy is a joke with lag. This is not new news to anyone. I am hearing that it may be code in the game and not all game spy's fault. I sure am glad i am finding this out now while i still have the reciept for the 400$ in upgrades for my pc.
4. Unit grouping has some major problems with staying in the same group through out the game. I make a group with inf at the beginning in the deployment phase. It may be a straight line for instance. After moving that group around the field a few time and trying to drag and drop it over and over, it turns into something that kinda resembles the FLYING V.
5. I know that most people prefered the game speed of MTW much more than rome so if that is the case i have no problem with serving the majority. However i prefer that units rout when surrounded instantly if outnumbered by a large amount. I dont really care about that though.

So let me get back to the point. You guys would like me to stop talking about the problems and come up with some solutions. I cant! Well as far as creating a video game i dont know. I did not go to college for that nor do i care to. I have been a part of the community for since MTW and many of you know me. However i am very annoyed and refuse to be a silent majority. I know that 90% of you who are even somewhat competetive in this game would agree on at least 4 of these points. So please dont sit here and post things like "We dont know what your problem is" You all know what it is. You all have the same frustration but cant post it in fear of upsetting the almighty CA GODS. This game came no where near to living up to its HYPE!

4 years in the TW community and this is the first post i have made in the ORG. I did not wish to get personal with anyone but my frustration is running high.

[ElmarkOFear]

But at least this time you actually contributed to the discussion by discussing your concerns and not just bashing anything and everything. If you bothered to read my previous posts (which obviously you didn't) you would know I listed several items which were a problem for M2TW. Also, if you HAVE been around, you would know I sold my RTW game back after one week of playing online because of the shoddy MP. The lobby was lacking several features which were vital to the MP community during STW/MTW. You would also know I was a mod/admin at the .com during those days and resigned my position because I felt I couldn't warn/edit/ban anyone whom I felt had every right to complain to CA about their overlooking the MP community with RTW. I told them the veteran MP community would leave in droves (and it did) and so did I.

You are so wrapped up in your anger you have failed to see, you are not being asked to stop complaining; you are being asked to complain in a manner which is a bit more constructive. Your first post was just venting at CA. It served no purpose, but to be some sort of revenge at CA (which, I can tell you from having been an admin at the .com for 3 years: CA couldn't care less). All your venting does is take up space, and since you readily admit that we already know what the problems are, why make such a post? You obviously don't feel any better for it. CA won't bother to take it to heart. They will continue to treat MP as a second-class citizen until they can be convinced otherwise. Yelling at CA and calling them idiots doesn't do a very good job of convincing them of anything. The only way to convince them is by not buying thier games and/or being civil and presenting them a list of what is important to the MP community.

I haven't played online since RTW's first week and I sold that game back. A friend of mine told me M2TW MP played better than RTW's, and I must agree the MP is a bit better. Oh it DOES have bugs. Haven't you read the threads here concerning cavalry, musketeers, or the thread which has been working on putting a wishlist together? And Palamedes, who now works at CA, who is an old veteran MP player himself, has asked us to work up a list and he will present it to CA to hopefully get some of our requests in. I don't expect CA to make many changes, but hopefully they will make the ones which have the greatest detrimental effect on MP.

Trying anything else is wasting your time. Either do not buy future games, or join the discussions on the problems with the game. Just posting for CA to fix the game and then calling them idiots won't have any effect at all.

Feel free to join those discussions in this section of the forum, it appears you have much to say about the cav problem and it might add a different perspective to the discussions, since many admit there is a problem with the cav charge, but they also feel that cav are overpowered and the cav charge bug at least is keeping cav from being a superpowered unit. If cav becomes that then all you will see are all-cav armies in MP instead of the various armies you see currently. Variety is good and keeps a game interesting over the long run.

In the days of STW, I remember CA made a change some in the community demanded, but it had some bad consequences to the overall balance of the game (I believe the unit in question was the musketeer). If there was more discussion in the forums about the musketeer unit, it would have seen the problem wasn't what it first appeared to be. The community finally tested and tested different settings and found a solution that worked and another patch was released and most people liked the results.

So please stop with the accusations and other caustic remarks and be a contributor to the discussions. This is why most people come to the .org forums. To get away from all the nonsense which goes on over at the .com forums. The spamfest that is occurring over there has chased away many a member to other forums (such as this one) where the discussions have historically been more civil (which is why you see CA staff posting here more often than at their official forums). You have a better chance of catching CA's attention here than any other place, IF you post your complaints in a civil manner. We definitely do not want to see all the hate spam which is overrunning the .com. It has made that forum not worth visiting lately and has pushed good discussions out of the mainstream.

[Stig]

Ah it's good to see Elmo post in full glory, all I can say that he's right

*nods*

[Fenix7]

Ah it's good to see Elmo post in full glory, all I can say that he's right

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Ah it's good to see Elmo post in full glory, all I can say that he's right

*nods*

I think we can Drink on that

[|Heerbann|_Di3Hard]

We cannot blame CA for something. They have their own strategy. I understand the nostalgia, but I have understood too, that we are not the target group. It is a pity, that it was not said in the developer blog clearly. They said only, that we will be all happy with that, but they should have known already, that this is not the case.

[Puzz3D]

Many others here have provided their own thoughts (myself included) as to why MP is inferior to STW/MTW's MP and also as to where the game is imbalanced and possible solutions.

We offer an alternative. It's called Samurai Wars. It uses a battle engine that's superior at simulating unit combat than the RTW/M2TW engine. We have a unit stat for MP that's fully independent from the SP stat. We have the biggest maps on which to play. We have excellent unit and faction recognition on the battlefield. We don't have artillery and elephants, but we do have guns which are not overpowered or underpowered. We have a better MP lobby than either RTW or M2TW offers. We are going to have an era where clans can have their own custom banner to play under, and Samurai Wars doesn't cost $50 usd.

[ElmarkOFear]

So you were finally able to separate the SP from MP stats? Nicely done Puzz.

[calithian]

Elmark as i suggeted...you dont play this game....So basically it is like you are giving a reply with no knowledge whatsoever right? Or wait, you have knowledge of STW and MTW and you are an admin here? Your comments are about as valuable for solutions as you claimed my first post was. Do you not play MP for fear that you will get as angry as i am about this? This game is done. They have ruined this game and will see no more unless they do a few things. Please quote me on this gents...... They will have to get rid of Gamespy or upgrade their service. They will also have to patch this game untill for 100 bugs...... The patch will be out thursday.... If these dont improve tremendously then they can all put their heads between their legs and kiss their butts gbye

[Yun Dog]

why because you wont be playing it anymore...

Ya well thats what alot of people said after RTW...but they (CA) are still here, and thankfully still producing games

no the only Butt they will be kissing goodbye ..Hopefully... is yours....

and good riddence

dont like the game - dont play it

and dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out

kthxbye

[Cheetah]

Elmark as i suggeted...you dont play this game....

He plays this game. I just played him yesterday.

So basically it is like you are giving a reply with no knowledge whatsoever right?

He has the knowledge.

Or wait, you have knowledge of STW and MTW

Yes, he has the knowledge of STW and MTW too.

and you are an admin here?

No, he is not an admin here.

Your comments are about as valuable for solutions as you claimed my first post was.

Solutions for what? Elmo is not trying to fix the game, he is trying to channel your post into a meaningful discussion, in which he at least partially succeeded.

Do you not play MP for fear that you will get as angry as i am about this?

Though he is in Fear , he is happy, in fact he is one of the happiest players I have ever seen.

This game is done.

For whom?

They have ruined this game and will see no more unless they do a few things.

They have created this game on the first place.

Please quote me on this gents......

I did.

They will have to get rid of Gamespy or upgrade their service.

No, they dont have to get rid of gamespy. For example I can host a 3v3 without problem and lag, so gamespy cannot be the problem.

They will also have to patch this game untill for 100 bugs...... The patch will be out thursday....

Lets hope so.

If these dont improve tremendously then they can all put their heads between their legs and kiss their butts gbye

What do you gain with such comments?

[Stig]

nice one Cheetah

[ElmarkOFear]

LOL Cheetah :)

I TOLD you guys I was a professional noob! Been playing MP since STW and apparently know nothing about anything. hehe

It is obvious to me now, the OP (Original Poster) is just trolling, and unable to grow up to the level of mature discussion. It is also apparent he has not read anything I have posted, or he read it and could not comprehend what was said. However, he still wants to bull his way through with his diatribe against CA.

I would recommend he be placed back in the new patron's section of the forum until he can mature to a level of discussion which is not counter-productive nor antagonistic to everyone around him.

It is one thing to complain about the game, providing insight into what one is dissappointed with. It is entirely another to complain, yet provide nothing of substance except insults and nonsense, without having bothered to read, or try to comprehend what others have stated.

Why does this sound like something I have said to my children? Or worse yet something my father said to me when I was young? OH NO! I'm turning into my father before my very eyes! Help me someone, save me befdore it's too late!

PS: I have been trying to teach Cheetah about the Joys of Routing, but he is having too much fun in winning and chasing my poor men around the battlemaps. :)

PSS: For those who may not be aware: MTW was hosted through GameSpy. It also had some lag and connectivity problems in the beginning, but the first patch improved it considerably. M2TW appears to be having a bit more trouble, but if history serves (based on MTW), the first patch should remedy most of the problems.

[Puzz3D]

So you were finally able to separate the SP from MP stats? Nicely done Puzz.

That's the interesting thing Elmark. We didn't have to modify the game to separate the stats because MTW supports separate stats for each era. All we had to do was specify a different unit stat file in a Samurai Wars Era definition file we created for MP. It's interesting because despite the game supporting separate stats for SP and MP, Creative Assembly was not inclined to make a separate stat for MP.