eh, why are people hysterical about Inquisiters?

**Kobal2fr** · 12-12-2006, 01:04

Yes, that was of course Joan of Arc I was talking about, and yes, I know it is a special case and was both the English and the French's (I understand she had become a bit of a nuisance to the French king as well - people respected her more than him after all, and she was turning into something of a loose canon waging her own private war) doing more than it had to do with the Pope's will (actually, in her case the Pope actively denounced the burning through retrial - but it was a posthumous retrial

), but then again when an Inqui roams into your lands and kills one of your generals, you can also make-believe it was at your neighbour's request/insistance.

The point I was trying to make was that important figures were not always safe from the Inquisition out of their importance. They were mostly not burnt though, I'll admit, but that is just Inquisition cliché and myth when inquisitors really never were that flame-happy.

I'm not sure I was being anti-religious, I read my post again and the only questionnable thing was calling Joan schizophrenic, but that was merely a joke playing on the game's leader naming system, and meant to be taken as such I assure you. Wether she in reality was a very clever girl, a very mad girl or God's conduit we can of course never know, can we ?

**Carl** · 12-12-2006, 01:20

I'm not sure I was being anti-religious, I read my post again and the only questionnable thing was calling Joan schizophrenic, but that was merely a joke playing on the game's leader naming system, and meant to be taken as such I assure you. Wether she in reality was a very clever girl, a very mad girl or God's conduit we can of course never know, can we ?

Fair enough, I didn't realise that you where having a go (a Smiley would have helped,

is my fav in these situations, I use it in the place of MSN's :p smiley).

I got a bit overzealous, :smash, mainly because, (regardless of what she was or was not), I respect her as one of the few people to deliver us English with a well deserved kicking, and we bloody well deserved it too TBH.

(It annoys me when my fellow Englishmen go on about this great British empire without actually stopping to realise just how like Hitler we could be on occasion).

Yes, that was of course Joan of Arc I was talking about, and yes, I know it is a special case and was both the English and the French's (I understand she had become a bit of a nuisance to the French king as well - people respected her more than him after all, and she was turning into something of a loose canon waging her own private war) doing more than it had to do with the Pope's will (actually, in her case the Pope actively denounced the burning through retrial - but it was a posthumous retrial ), but then again when an Inqui roams into your lands and kills one of your generals, you can also make-believe it was at your neighbour's request/insistance.

True enough I guess. My point was merely that in general these incidents of important people being killed where more to do with the enemy than with someone walking into their kingdom and burning them. They tended to have to be outside the protection of their homeland for it to happen.

Talking of the retrial, wasn't she made a saint following that? (I'm trusting AoEII here so it's worth checking).

If that’s true then she's the only Saint I’m aware of that actually turns up in the game, (she's a possible retinue member, if you want to know how to get her I can list the conditions).

Sorry again for the Anti-religious comment, i missed your meaning totally

.

**dopp** · 12-12-2006, 02:06

It seems (from looking at the code) that Inquisitors are just Papal assassins. Relations with the Pope don't matter, only piety does. Maybe what should be done is add a trigger that fires when your cardinal becomes pope, giving your king bonus piety ("friend of his holiness" trait or something). Problem is, inquisitors are usually at max piety due to previous successful burnings, and the base chance is 1 out of 3, so it's still very likely you burn.

**Kobal2fr** · 12-12-2006, 02:06

Originally Posted by Carl

Talking of the retrial, wasn't she made a saint following that? (I'm trusting AoEII here so it's worth checking).

If that’s true then she's the only Saint I’m aware of that actually turns up in the game, (she's a possible retinue member, if you want to know how to get her I can list the conditions).

Not really. She was declared innocent and a martyr a few years after her death (and her late judge branded with heresy), but was only canonized in the early 20th century (beatified a few years before IIRC). Better late than never, heh ?

But we're veering dangerously off-topic

.

My point is : yes, M2's Inquis are far more powerfull than they ever were, but that has a point from a gaming PoV, and taking into account the dev's wish to make the Pope more important this time around.

MTW's faction-based inquisitors going on rampages on populations and killing the occasional general were much closer to history (and again could be erm... shall we say a-historical, at times. Remember how many "my inquisitor burned the pope !" threads there were back then ?

), but MTW's papacy was something of an easily dismissed joke wasn't it ?

**Darkmoor_Dragon** · 12-12-2006, 02:20

merchants, diplomats and princesses also have piety ratings but they are hidden.

**Carl** · 12-12-2006, 02:34

Not really. She was declared innocent and a martyr a few years after her death (and her late judge branded with heresy), but was only canonized in the early 20th century (beatified a few years before IIRC). Better late than never, heh ?

Well AoEII is fairly recent so it would take the early 20th century into account. It merely stated that she was made a saint after her death, it never said when. So it was kind of correct, just could have been put better. (As to the Judge, I should hope he was branded with heresy).

Also, defiantly better late than never, especially when you consider what would likely have happened if England had won the Hundred Years war. The social morality effects, (indirect effects BTW), can still be felt today.

Agreed, where going a bit off-topic, just thought I’d run it by someone while I had the chance.

My point is : yes, M2's Inquis are far more powerful than they ever were, but that has a point from a gaming PoV, and taking into account the dev's wish to make the Pope more important this time around.

Indeed, it's only really a problem when they're wiping factions out

.

**dopp** · 12-12-2006, 02:40

The French king with 10 command stars was approaching Toulouse when an inquisitor happened by and casually picked him off in passing. Since I can't fix the ReligionStarter bug for characters not of my faction, he had zero piety burned rather easily. The army then went rebel.

**Zenicetus** · 12-12-2006, 02:54

Originally Posted by dopp

The French king with 10 command stars was approaching Toulouse when an inquisitor happened by and casually picked him off in passing. Since I can't fix the ReligionStarter bug for characters not of my faction, he had zero piety burned rather easily. The army then went rebel.

Ugh.... see, that's why it's not just a question of "play the game as intended, and you won't have problems." When it affects the large-scale strategy side of the game to that degree, even for the AI factions, it's just broken.

**Kobal2fr** · 12-12-2006, 12:42

Originally Posted by dopp

The French king with 10 command stars was approaching Toulouse when an inquisitor happened by and casually picked him off in passing. Since I can't fix the ReligionStarter bug for characters not of my faction, he had zero piety burned rather easily. The army then went rebel.

Can't you give traits to characters using their name instead of through select+"this" ?

**Kraxis** · 12-12-2006, 22:17

Originally Posted by dopp

The French king with 10 command stars was approaching Toulouse when an inquisitor happened by and casually picked him off in passing. Since I can't fix the ReligionStarter bug for characters not of my faction, he had zero piety burned rather easily. The army then went rebel.

Aww.... That was a shame.

How often do we really see generals of his capacity among the AI factions? A real shame!

I agree that the king and perhaps the heir should get a trait like that 'Friend of his Holiness' (+5 Piety would be fitting) when one of their faction is Pope (can be removed with botched assassination). That should help them directly, meanwhile crusading generals should be absolutely immune.