Changing courses of history and war?

**Spart** · 12-11-2006, 16:20

Is it actually ever possible to change fate, I mean fate is fate, if you change your fate then your ultimate fate was to change your fate (it gets confusing), but can actions ever change the course of anything (historical perspective not sci-fi or that kind stuff), If the Greeks lost on the first day of Thermopylae what would have happened? If Boudica beat the Romans what then? Things happened that way because of the course of the war, The Persians tried to attack a phalanx head on with little armour on their body ofcourse they were going to get slaughtered of course the Greeks would then get more time to prepare, things happen because of the course of war, cause and effect. People talk of the defeat of Hitlers' 9th army at Stalingrad changing the course of the war, why? If you lose a battle like that there will be litte chance of you gainin the advantage again.
Maybe I am misinterpreting the meaning, does anyone agree or disagree with the above?

**Julian the apostate** · 12-12-2006, 01:57

wyrd bio ful aread, fate is inexorable
but i guess the question is was it predestined to be or did we as people make it so.

so the option for this thread now it seems is either to debate theoretical/quantum mechanics and to decide whether or not "God rolls dice".
but yeah with in a linear strain of time, fate is fate

**Marshal Murat** · 12-12-2006, 04:10

One of the Greek playwrights often discussed fate (Sophocles with Oedipus Rex??)

**Seamus Fermanagh** · 12-12-2006, 05:20

When you can answer the question you pose, the question will no longer matter.

Btw, it was the 6th army at Stalingrad.

**The Wizard** · 12-16-2006, 01:06

I don't think a victory for Boudicca would have changed much past the short term, save perhaps heavier repercussion from a vengeful Rome.

That said, it's always interesting to muse about the endless possibilities of what might have happened. Fact is, however, that past the immediate consequences debate is impossible. Why? Because after that point, so many variables come into play that a debate can easily turn into a fanciful series of speculations.

**Kraxis** · 12-16-2006, 06:19

If there is such a thing as fate, then there is no free will, and if there is no free will then why should we bother with anything anyway? It is predestined whatever we do, hence we have no impact on what is to happen...

See the downward spiral on that one?

The free will is important to the human.

**Duke Malcolm** · 12-16-2006, 14:28

Originally Posted by Marshal Murat

One of the Greek playwrights often discussed fate (Sophocles with Oedipus Rex??)

Isn't it Oedipus Tyrannus? Rex is latin...
But I digress...

There are too many things to speculate. And the further back one goes the harder it becomes to speculate, since that would mean more time is affected by the change. There would hypothetically be an infinite number of outcomes, since an infinite number of things could happen in the time, some more likely than others.
But that's all nonsense, of course...

**Stig** · 12-16-2006, 14:51

Tarrak has it really

If we're all meant for one certain thing, if anything is decided before, why still bother?
If it's my destiny to become an Archaeologist, why would I still read my books and go to the exams, I will become one anyway.

If there's a destiny for all of us, why won't we just relax, grap a beer and lay down on the sofa, what has to come comes anyway, there's nothing for us to change about it.

**The Wizard** · 12-16-2006, 18:16

And that is why this thread is neither about destiny nor about faith, for the original poster speaks of what could have happened should certain other choices have been made, should other things have happened. Since, in human history (which equals interaction), choices define what happens, we speak of free will here.