Allied with the Mongols

[Doug-Thompson]

Giving the Mongols a more agressive AI is a specific feature of an uncoming patch. Therefore, this little story won't have any lasting implications. I'll post what finally happens just to satisfy any curiousity.

[Doug-Thompson]

The Mongols finally betrayed me at either turn 130 or 131. At the same time, I got the "Black Death" cutscene. Wasn't exactly a smiley, happy turn.

They broadcast the fact they were turning on me by dispersing to threaten multiple crossings. Next turn, one stack besieged Baghdad. I had to cross a river to disperse them but did, although losing about twice as many men as them. Most were bargain-rate Baghdad garrison troops, at least. One Mongol stack routed and it's general killed.

Then two stacks attacked me at the river crossing north of Mosul, which turned out to be one of the best bottlenecks I've ever seen. It's a deep gorge with a bridge and one other crossing a bit downstream. One force could cover both. Even the deployment by the computer was pretty good. I did send two more Mameluk Archers to cover the ford, though. Their reinforcements arrived. My reinforcements arrived. Four full stacks glared at each other accross the gorge in full laggy glory at night.

We wait. And wait. And wait. There is no time limit. Since I'm sure my dumb AI reinforcements will attack across the river if I don't do something, I send one unit of desert archers to try and provoke an attack. I lose five of their 60 men for nothing.

Sure enough, my dumb reinforcements cross the river bridge. I get to watch Mongol rocket launchers in action for the first time. Mamaluks (archer and melee), desert archers and such attacking two full Mongol stacks deployed on a steep slope with artillery, including a trebuchet. I considered myself lucky that the reinforcement army only suffered 60 percent casulaties and routed after their one-star general got killed. I stayed where I was, hoping the Mongols would chase the routed across the bridge.

They did -- with one whole unit -- which happened to be their general's bodyguard. (Their second stack was led by a captain.) I killed him and the whole Mongol army comes pouring over the bridge. Now its my turn. Heavy cavalry charge into what's largely a cavalry fight, but I have three units of decent spears and two mercenary javelin units. These prove to be my secret weapons, with a high-value horse to kill everywhere they turn. The desert archers are pouring it on from height, too, and so are the Mameluk archers.

Still, I just don't have the numbers any more, so as the last survivors of spears and heavy cavalry die I tighten up my Mameluk archers and charge them into the brawl, practically rolling like an avalance down the steep slope. The Mongols are still pushing, so I commit the last reserve: The Sultan himself and his bodyguard. The desert archers keep up the fire. Thirty-six bodyguard charge into the wild melee. The sultan was one of two left before I finally got them out.

The Mongols are beaten, and what's left of my Mameluk archers chase them mercilessly, even going after the trebuchet crews.

Two more Mongol stacks routed. That makes three. A second of their generals killed.

My depleted sultan's army is attacked again. I can't stand against another full stack, and retreat. New troops are headed my way from across the empire , mercenaries are hired and more units rebuilt in Mosul and Baghdad. Two more full stacks are ready near Mosul, and I attack the army that forced me from the bridge.

So now I'm the attacker at the famous gorge. I send a mercenary elephant unit across the bridge to cause some losses, create some confusion, and then run amok. They do a little, then rout without running amok. Uh-oh.

My full-stack army gets wiped out, almost to a man. This time, my reinforcements are riding to my rescue. My original general's bodyguard stack is covering himself with glory as unit after unit routs or is simply wiped out. At one point, I'm more than 60 percent casualties among my two stacks and the Mongols are in the 40s with one. But this time, they run out of men. They commit missile troops to melee, but these cav archers (who must have been out of arrows) are not Mamaluk archers. They commit their general, who's killed. The dam bursts, and the Mongols are swept away. All that's left of my original stack is a bodyguard unit that's down to 10 men and one dismounted Arab Cavalry that has about one man left and he hasn't reached the map edge.

Four Mongols stacks routed. Three of their generals killed.

And that's that. I'm installing the patch today, and have no doubt that my vast Egyptian empire's ability to reinforce itself would ultimately defeat the Mongols. I can take losses. He can't.

[CaptainSolo]

That was an excellent read Doug

Once i get the patch i'll be starting a new game,probably with Egypt.Even more so now you have shown the Mongols to be beatable.

Update the thread and let us know how your campaign progresses.

[Doug-Thompson]

Thanks, CaptainSolo. Regrettably, however, I won't be able to finish that campaign after installing the patch.

Key points to remember when fighting Mongols as Egyptians, however:

1. Mameluk Archers have a melee option that Mongol Horse Archers don't have. Mongol Heavy Horse Archers are a dead-on match for Mameluk Archers in melee and have 3-silver experience to boot, but the basic MHA is outclassed, particularly if your MA have some experience and upgrades.

2. Mongols have no javelins. Those are the perfect weapons for softening up their lancers and other decent melee cavalry. You may have to turn skirmish off if the brawl is big. Otherwise, they have trouble getting in range of the units you really want to kill.

3. Saracen Militia are a fine, solid spear unit. So are dismounted Arab Cavalry.

4. Desert Archers are a fine, solid archery unit.

5. Arab cavalry are too light for this work.

6. Kwazian (sp?) cavalry is generously available as mercenaries. They're not as good as melee Mamalukes but will do.

7. Although I've disparaged artillery elephants in other places, firing across that gorge at long range would be a lot of fun.

[CaptainSolo]

A shame that Doug,it would have been interesting to see how the rest of the war played out.
Also,thanks for the tips,i'm looking forward to getting started with the Egyptians and i'll keep your advice in mind.

[Shahed]

I'm getting desperate to meet the Mongols and the Timurids now... should be so much fun. Nice account Doug.

Solo, all the factions are beatable. People like to hype.

I think you can continue the campaign Doug, at least I have'nt tried continuing mine just yet (busy with other stuff), but I think the patch is compatible.

[Doug-Thompson]

Lo and behold, the patch is compatible. Why can't I read some of those announcements correctly? Oh well.

I fought another Mongol battle during lunch, This one killed their faction leader, Khan Orda, at at a much more shallow river crossing between Mosul and Baghdad. It was also by far the most decisive victory yet. For once I took out a Mongol stack without losing one.

(Lucky for me I wasn't facing Orda Khan )

No reinforcements for either side.

I've changed my mind about cannon elephants. I was pretty disparaging about them in another thread. This time I had hired some as mercenaries. I stuck them far out on my left high up on the river bank, where they could fire into the enemy's 2 o'clock, hopefully get some raking action and do some long-range sniping. They did -- and killed 158 men out of a 746-man army by themselves without getting in range of Mongol arrows, except for one brief moment by my mistake. I'm getting ahead of myself, though.

The Mongols wait long enough to see if I'm an idiot who will cross the river to attack them. I'm far enough back from the bank that they can't snipe at me with either their trebuchets or rocket launchers, much less arrows. I have an army unusually heavy (for me) with infantry: Saracen Militia, dismounted Arab Cavalry, at least four Desert Archers and one militia archer, a unit of mercenary javelin infantry in their usual general-killing role, supported by Khwarazmian heavy cavalry and Mameluk Archers, about four each. There are the aforementioned elephants and my general, too, but for once my general didn't have to fight.

I start sniping at their heavy cavalry archers with my EleCannons, turning off fire-at-will and settling on some good Mongol lancers that are almost directly across the river from my big new pets. The Mongols sweat and groan and push two trebuchets over there to counterfire. I wait until they're almost in position, then switch fire to the treb crews. You can't target the trebs themselves, but you can target the crews with a good chance of hitting the trebs. Those stray shots cause 20 percent damage a hit. The Mongols shove their trebs away, back toward the center of their line without firing a shot. At this point, I stop fire to conserve ammo. The battle hasn't started yet and 7 percent of the Mongol army is dead.

Rising to the inevitable, the Mongols cross the river in a typical Total War cross the river lunge. I commit everything right away, because I don't want those Mongol horse archers slipping around me. The Mongols are going to die, but the real issue now is how much of an army will I have left.

That where the elephants come in again. Barely having to move, they take the river crossing under constant fire, having to switch targets as units stream past. I'm wishing for a "fire at this spot" command, but otherwise do fine.

As the Mongols get across, the elephant's cannons target large clumps of units at the tail end of their formation. Although my troops in melee could use some help, friendly fire from a cannon is dangerous. The archers, foot and horse, are all firing at will, and all are firing.

I don't want to give the impression that the elephants won the battle all by themselves. They didn't .They just had the most unique role, which requires more description. The rest of the battle was a textbook contested river crossing fight, with Mameluk archers and their Desert Archer cousins sweeping the air with arrows. Between that and the return fire, a cricket could have jumped from arrow to arrow from one side of the Mongol army to the other.

Then two things happened. The Khan crossed the river and Mongol rocket launchers started to get to the other side. Trebuchets were getting across too, but it wasn't exactly their kind of fight.

I sent every heavy cavalry unit I had, plus a spear unit, plus my Javelin-hurling king-killers after the khan. That left an opening for some light Mongol lancers to make a half-hearted lunge at my general, but they quickly turned aside and got spanked by my general's bodyguard for their trouble. Meanwhile, my EleCannons, with seemingly limitless ammo, take the rocket launchers under fire. It's personal. If I ever saw a weapon that looked like it might scare elephants, it's a Mongol Rocket Launcher.

The Khan is captured by heavy cavalry. What's left of the Mongol army starts to panic. They're pushed into the river and chased by my largely intact Mameluk Archers, which now switch roles to melee cav. The Mongol army is 95 percent destroyed. Me? About 30 percent. The Mongols refuse the ransom, including the $10K for the Khan alone.

Oh, by the way, about half the provinces in my Empire are hit with the Black Death. So far, the chief consequence is financial. However, I've been able to raise my taxes and had about $18K florins in the bank, so I should be OK for at least three turns. My largest expense, by far, is army expense. I should have enough troops to fight the rest of the Mongols off.