Why the rush to gunpowder?

[IsItStillThere]

MTW2 is a great game but does anyone else think that gunpowder units are available way too early in the game? In my current campaign, I am building the first available gunpowder units around the year 1250. These are bombard cannons. In the unit description, it states that the first of these were used in Europe in the mid 14th century (thats mid 1300's) and gained widespread use at the end of the 14th century (late 1300's). So here I am making them 150 years too soon.

The other historical events like the Mongol invasions seem to happen at historically accurate dates, so why not gunpowder? Frankly, I think the game would be equally great if they had ended the campaign at 1400 and left out gunpowder altogether.

Are specific dates that units or buildings become available moddable?

[zulukiller]

MTW2 is a great game but does anyone else think that gunpowder units are available way too early in the game? In my current campaign, I am building the first available gunpowder units around the year 1250. These are bombard cannons. In the unit description, it states that the first of these were used in Europe in the mid 14th century (thats mid 1300's) and gained widespread use at the end of the 14th century (late 1300's). So here I am making them 150 years too soon.

The other historical events like the Mongol invasions seem to happen at historically accurate dates, so why not gunpowder? Frankly, I think the game would be equally great if they had ended the campaign at 1400 and left out gunpowder altogether.

Are specific dates that units or buildings become available moddable?

I'm actually a bit urked myself ATM in my campaign i have modded it to be 6 months a turn so it could be my fault but I'm sure what I'm about to complain about should be tied in with some kind of key event not through the tech tree which this appears to be.



Since the late 13th century the Venetians have been fielding full stacks of those ships that are from the 16th century and its really urking me off as I'm only able to build Gun holks which don't stand a chance.

[PaulTa]

The game is about re-writing history. Gunpowder has indeed been around for probably a few thousand years, but only came to prominence in those times. It doesn't mean that your leader can't be a bit more adventurous and have a bit more foresight with this "new" invention.

[Mandos]

Heh if you thing bombards are bad, a prepared player can start pumping out musketeers a few turns after the gunpowder event...

[IrishArmenian]

Assuming he already has huge walls. Best bet is to take Constantinople as a faction that actually gets gun powder. Cheers to Cossack Musketeers!

[Test112345]

all ive ever used are the bombard units, how are the other gunpowder units?

[lars573]

The game is about re-writing history. Gunpowder has indeed been around for probably a few thousand years, but only came to prominence in those times. It doesn't mean that your leader can't be a bit more adventurous and have a bit more foresight with this "new" invention.

The Chinese invented Gunpowder in the 9th century. A book from 850 titled "Classified Essentials of the Mysterious Tao of the True Origin of Things" contains a recipe for gunpowder, and appearantly was happened upon by Taoist alchemists trying to make an immortality potion. By 904 the Chinese have made military rockets.

Also it's not that early to have gunpowder coming along when it does. Muslim scholars had a gunpowder recipe around 1100. Weapons using it are developed in Islamic and Christian areas of europe by 1250.

[Blackboots]

a recipe for gunpowder... happened upon by Taoist alchemists trying to make an immortality potion

I bet THOSE alchemists never reached immortality!

With the default time scale, I feel that everything is a bit rushed. They seem to have slowed down the tactical battles a little bit, which is good, but the speed of events and the constant attacks from your neighbors seem to have increased the overall pace of the game.

I guess that's what we get from all of those threads talking about how people got bored and never played all the way through a campaign?

[Test112345]

holy crap...you need to have the highest archer building and then convert them using gunpowder, right?you get whatever their gunpowder counterparts are?

jease man...the problem is that i went through every round and i saw no countries i fought using any gunpowder weapons besides the handgunners. it seems like you can just make regular units and do fine against anyone. or do countries get better militaries as you get better too...im playing on m/m so that may be it too. wow...thats such a long range.

[RZST]

I bet THOSE alchemists never reached immortality!

With the default time scale, I feel that everything is a bit rushed. They seem to have slowed down the tactical battles a little bit, which is good, but the speed of events and the constant attacks from your neighbors seem to have increased the overall pace of the game.

I guess that's what we get from all of those threads talking about how people got bored and never played all the way through a campaign?

thats part of it (although i DO enjoy slow-buildup-turtle type campaigns)
the other reason is that the devs think that the majority of campaign players dont even get the late era units. so their solution? speed it up which imho is pretty bad. there SHOULD have been an option for fast-slow playstyles.

[lars573]

I bet THOSE alchemists never reached immortality!

Well trying to find a potion was a step up from previous immortality formulas. Which consisted of drinking mercury and eating jade.

Early handguns and arquebuses were believed to have been invented in China around the same time as well (12-13th century), according to some recent archeological finds. The armies of the late Ming Dynasty include war wagons (against the nomads), heavy siege artillery, and pike-and-shot formations. Make of it what you will. Unfortunately, nobody takes Chinese historians seriously, so you end up getting those stupid fire lances and rocket launchers every time you play a game with Far Easterners involved. Or those ridiculous repeating crossbows. Or archers with exploding ammo. Or rocket-assisted catapult stones. Or pretty fireworks.

I've seen what is pirported to be a hand held bronze cannon from around the Yuan period. But going as far as an Arquebus might be stretching it.

[SMZ]

I'm actually a bit urked myself ATM in my campaign i have modded it to be 6 months a turn so it could be my fault but I'm sure what I'm about to complain about should be tied in with some kind of key event not through the tech tree which this appears to be.

Since the late 13th century the Venetians have been fielding full stacks of those ships that are from the 16th century and its really urking me off as I'm only able to build Gun holks which don't stand a chance.

Well wordems, if you changed the time progression, things are gonna be out of wack... and secondly, if you're a northern european power, such as the English - basically, you should stay off the water as much as possible until you get Carrack tech.

In the early, early, early game - you could've sunk Dhows... if the Pirates didn't catch you first, lol - that's about it. After that, don't get near the waves until shipbuilding is about putting lots of big guns on board.

[Quickening]

Well wordems, if you changed the time progression, things are gonna be out of wack...

Eh? I thought things still happened in exactly the same year if you changed the time progression. I thought they just (obviously) took longer to happen?

[Musashi]

Eh? I thought things still happened in exactly the same year if you changed the time progression. I thought they just (obviously) took longer to happen?

Nyet. Most of the game events are set to happen a certain number of turns after you start. A few are tied to dates, but the majority are based on number of turns.

[Quickening]

Nyet. Most of the game events are set to happen a certain number of turns after you start. A few are tied to dates, but the majority are based on number of turns.

Oh for f**ksake.

Thanks for the info. Now that is annoying.