Most powerful faction...

[Turpitudo]

I would vote for France, the armour upgraded Voulgiers wipe the floor with every Infantry (yes, even JHI) but for the danish Halberdiers, if you use the spearwall ability without hold positions. They are all-round units and cheap(!), good in offense (if you have the patience for a good ordered but slow attack) and defence. They also have a good starting position and can get rid of England very early in the game. The scottish guard and horse archers add a lot to their ranged abilities and they have some of the best armoured cavalry and pikemen in the game.
Milan is the only disturbing factor to them, but they are normally in war with every of their neighbours.

After all I think every faction is well balanced.

[Varyar]

It's difficult to say because it matters on your criteria. I would completely disregard starting position because it's so easy to pull off a 'barbarian migration' (in my current game as the Turks, I abandoned all starting provinces and took control of Crete, Rhodos and Cyprus. Thanks to the island bug, I had no worry of being attacked and could develop my economy. Best campaign yet). Likewise, comparing only the best units disregards availibility, since you'll likely fight the first 50 or so turns with mostly crappier units.

All italian factions have a super advantage in their militia troops, but despite that I'd pick the Moors. Why?

Infantry: Dismounted Christian Guard is actually better than most dismounted knights. Also the Urban Militia is a great militia unit. However, considering that both of them are somewhat elite units, the overall rating for Moor infantry is average. They have decent spearmen but nothing impressive and until you get the better units, you'd better not rely on infantry to win your battles.

Archers: A poor selection, definitely the Moor weak spot. However, the basic Desert Archer is decent, with both long range and good stamina. Like their basic infantry, not much to rely on but they get the job done.

Cavalry: A very good selection ranging from the basic Arab Cavalry and the city-recruited Tuareg Camel Spearmen, to the Granadine lancers and the Christian Guard, which is equal to the Templar/Hospitaller Knights. They also have spear-throwing cavalry which is great, the fast-moving Granadine Jinetes is probably the best such unit in the game.

Also, one thing which I consider to be very important about a faction's cavalry selection is the availability of at least one fast-moving unit. The lack of such is IMHO very negative, which is a major reason why I'm not too fond of neither England nor Poland.

Gunpowder:

With the advent of gunpowder, you can produce Cossack musketeers, the second best gunpowder unit in the game. You also have something those Turks who stole first place don't have[...]

Dear Sir, I think what you really meant was third and second Because the best gunpowder unit in the game is the Moor Camel Gunner. Hands down. It's the gunpowder equivalent of the horse archer with all the advantages of the latter combined with the wonders of gunpowder. With long range. And as if that wasn't enough, there's the camels. With the 'freak-out-horsies' bonus. This is the ultimate morale killer, easily able to take out any knights sent after it. It has no equal. There is no army I would rather have than one filled with these guys, backed up by some Christian Guard and Granadine Jinetes. Also there's good artillery(cannons) and better-than-average arquebusiers in the Sudanese Gunners.

All in all, the fantastic later-game units of the Moors more than compensates for their poor earlier units. And that is why, IMHO, the Moors are the most powerful faction in the game. The muslim advantages of Jihad doesn't hurt either.

[Sarmatian]

Dear Sir, I think what you really meant was third and second Because the best gunpowder unit in the game is the Moor Camel Gunner. Hands down. It's the gunpowder equivalent of the horse archer with all the advantages of the latter combined with the wonders of gunpowder. With long range. And as if that wasn't enough, there's the camels. With the 'freak-out-horsies' bonus. This is the ultimate morale killer, easily able to take out any knights sent after it. It has no equal. There is no army I would rather have than one filled with these guys, backed up by some Christian Guard and Granadine Jinetes. Also there's good artillery(cannons) and better-than-average arquebusiers in the Sudanese Gunners.

All in all, the fantastic later-game units of the Moors more than compensates for their poor earlier units. And that is why, IMHO, the Moors are the most powerful faction in the game. The muslim advantages of Jihad doesn't hurt either.

I don't know. Camel gunners are better on the field, but you can only recruit them in castles, they are more expensive, both to build and to maintain. Since you can build cossack musketeers in cities, in mid game you are able to produce large quantities of them easily. They are also much more useful on the offensive, since they can be easily rereained in almost every city.
When you are on the offensive with camel gunners, you have to conquer a castle and then spend several turns building both caravan stop and caravan saray, if you want to retrain them. Great unit, but not as versatile as cossack musketeers, IMHO... And of course, cossack musketeers have 120 guns, while camel gunners have 80.

[Varyar]

I don't know. Camel gunners are better on the field, but you can only recruit them in castles, they are more expensive, both to build and to maintain. Since you can build cossack musketeers in cities, in mid game you are able to produce large quantities of them easily. They are also much more useful on the offensive, since they can be easily rereained in almost every city.

That's true, although that is a strategical advantage, not a tactical one. If you have enough Camel Gunners to begin with, it makes no difference on the battlefield. It's just a matter of what criteria you use to define what "most powerful" mean.

When you are on the offensive with camel gunners, you have to conquer a castle and then spend several turns building both caravan stop and caravan saray, if you want to retrain them. Great unit, but not as versatile as cossack musketeers, IMHO...

Again true, assuming all else being similar(equal losses etc.). That however can largely be countered by having good logistics(sending decimated units home to be retrained) and making sure to have enough units in the first place. The Camel Gunners also move faster on the map than Cossack Musketeers.

Camel Gunners are nice, a very powerful unit.... but iunno if that alone is a faction saver. Have you seen the Islamic navy?

By the time you get to the later portion of the game, where you're going to be getting those Camel Gunners, it's not too much longer until everybody else gets Carracks and you're left with Baghlahs - giving up 12 points in Attack and 8 in Defense... in other words, you better not get your feet wet.

While sea dominance can be crucial, dominance is ultimately decided on the battlefield. Considering that the vast majority of provinces are land-bound to eachother, the quality of the armies is more important than the quality of the navies. A good point, nonetheless. You could however say that it's somewhat countered by the muslim advantages concerning Jihad.

Secondly, Cannons are ok, but that's all you've got... a weaker version of the Culverin. The mainland Christian powers all get Basiliks, which completely pwn your Cannons.

True. But when the best option is an all-cavalry army anyway, you'll only use cannons for sieges, where opponent superiority in artillery is much less important. Artillery only truly matters if it's an integral part of your battlefield tactics.

Not to mention, your Camel Gunners are useless in a siege, so you can hardly use them as a war-winning unit... a very useful unit, definantly... but I'd say they save the Moors from being out-classed, rather than give them any sort of edge... just like good archers on foot will beat good archers on a horse... good musketeers on foot will beat good musketeers on a camel.

They can be used in a siege quite well, as long as you're happy starving the garrisson rather than assaulting. While I do hail them as the best unit in the game, I admit that they're not the best at everything(no unit is). For assaults the Moors have other great units. Also, it's a matter not only of what the unit is capable of one-on-one vs other units, but what they are capable of when combined with other units. In a mixed army, the Camel Gunners are not only more versatile than their dismounted brethren, but they can also more easily compensate for their potential weakness against units such as Musketeers(by having heavier cavalry/infantry that can harass them) than the other way around.

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EDIT: After just doing some unit testing on VH, grassy field... I can say that Knights of Santiago vs. Camel Gunners is mutually assured destruction, The Knights take casualties before they can close, then take even more because they're scared of the camels - but the huge difference in melee ability allows the Knights to dish out heavy casualties - it's a toss up to who flees the field first, but either way, the winning unit is torn to shreds. Also the Knights can close because the Camels are slow. Secondly, Portugese Arquebusiers beat Camel Gunners with 50% casualties... the difference in range hurts them initially, but the larger unit size makes a bigger difference. Lastly, Janissary Musketeers mop the floor with Camel Gunners with 25% casualties.

They remain, a deadly field unit... but there are counters... even good long range archers could hang with them, I tried Sherwoods, and they gave the Camels a good smacking with 33% casualties.

Did you play as the Camel Gunners or as the opponents? Going to repeat your tests playing as the Camel Gunners.

EDIT: finished a few rounds. Won most of them with the Camels either by avoiding the opponent or in the case of the Musketeers, ride ahead while shooting to finish with a charge. The ones I lost were those where I just let the camels stand still and get tied in a shooting contest.

[SMZ]

You're right, play styles simply differ. They are the ultimate form of the cavalry based force, which is a world-conquering option. My personal style leans more toward the "balanced" force... lol, I don't like waiting for sieges - and I like being good at most things, rather than perfect at one thing.

As to the tests, I left the Camels in the AI's control, because I knew that the difference between the AI's ability to control them and mine was less than, in particular, my ability to control the Knights and the AI's. If the AI had been in control of the Knights, they would've just sat there and gotten shot to pieces. If they had charged, they would've done so in a start/stop manner, constantly reformed and still gotten shot to pieces. On the other hand, I chased the camels by placing the Knights in Loose Formation, and charging at a point beyond the Gunners, thus the Knights didn't do any stopping to reform, and their faster speed allowed them to catch the Camels - at which point I switched them into attacking... this resulted in both units being slaughtered.

With the gunpowder units, even charging - Janissaries, Cossacks, Portugese Arquebusiers and even Sudanese Gunners will still be able to beat the Camels because their melee stats are better and they have more men... in effect, closing to melee just hurries the Camels demise. This is even more true of many of the long range archer units which have strangely good melee abilities. That is of course, provided that the commanders are equal... I don't doubt that you can still beat the AI... but, lol

[Musashi]

The flaw in your Camel Gunners vs. (Insert missile infantry unit here) is that they outrange most (Most!) missile infantry, and they are significantly faster than an infantry unit, so you could easily keep them outside the range of say, Sudanese Gunners or Portugese Arquebussiers, use your entire ammunition store on them, and THEN charge.

[SMZ]

The flaw in your Camel Gunners vs. (Insert missile infantry unit here) is that they outrange most (Most!) missile infantry, and they are significantly faster than an infantry unit, so you could easily keep them outside the range of say, Sudanese Gunners or Portugese Arquebussiers, use your entire ammunition store on them, and THEN charge.

true, good point...

so then I guess only Cossacks and Janissaries can hang with them.... still, that's a lot of micro-managing =/

[BeeSting]

In terms of geographical position where you can exert your power and influence in wider range of the map, I vote HRE. One can achieve hegemony there without having to wage war with its bordering factions and maintain a relative peace for much of the catholic world.

I would have conquered all of Europe by now at turn 70 but thought this would give me a greater challenge. I have not as of yet fought a single battle with the France, England, Poland or Hungary. Now I see large cities sprouting and huge armies marching all over Europe for a greater finale.

[IrishArmenian]

Russia. No if'sm no's or but's about it. Just watch your...back to protect from the Mongols, and Timurids, but I found that they mostly head to the Middle East.

[Varyar]

What I think we can agree on, SMZ, is that the AI will usually lose regardless which of the units it controls. Thus the unit balance is fairly even.

With the gunpowder units, even charging - Janissaries, Cossacks, Portugese Arquebusiers and even Sudanese Gunners will still be able to beat the Camels because their melee stats are better and they have more men... in effect, closing to melee just hurries the Camels demise.

Again I have experience stating the opposite. In fact, since the Camel Gunners fire on the move, they are excellent at breaking infantry morale. You ride full speed while shooting, making the AI change to loose formation. Then you stop at close range and charge, and then finally just ride through to reform on the other side. Not even the Janissaries can take that, they turn and run. Despite their rather humble stats, the Camels does get the cavalry charge advantage. Quite versatile.

And if you managed to actually charge the camels with infantry, then you must agree that the AI greatly mismanaged the poor creatures.

[osb0t]

Little shocked to see nobody mention the Danes.

Simply put, Obudshaers are the meanest infantry unit in Europe.

The Viking (Norse) Archers are also extremely rowdy. They remind me of Samurai Archers in STW, not only are they competent archers but they are very solid in hand to hand.

If you anchor your main battle line with Obudshaers and then protect your flanks with some of the other Danish infantry, well, short of HJI you are going to smash everything in front of you to tiny little bits.

With the very solid melee stats of those Archers, you can actually field shooter armies.

In terms of the Campaign, the Danes have more room to expand than the English and are nearly as isolated. Expansion into the Baltic and Finland will achieve you a rich trading network. Then you can slam into the HRE from the north while they are otherwise occupied.

Obviously there really is no way to state what the single most powerful faction is, however the Danes have some exceptionally powerful units with the ability to grow economically without much chance to come into conflict with a rival power until they are ready.