Most powerful faction...

**rios** · 12-12-2006, 23:45

I've played russian, spanish and venice so far, and venice is absolutely crazy compared to the other 2.

Full line of MILITIA units including long range missiles, cavs and high valor/combat value infantries; with same castle line of units as most catholic factions; plus everything late from pikes to muskets to cannons...

Not to mention venice could buy Bologna from holyroman in turn 1, which puts the country at modest power from the get-go and enables deplomatic relationships with all factions (including papal) on VH campaign.

**IrishArmenian** · 12-13-2006, 00:31

Russia. No if'sm no's or but's about it. Just watch your...back to protect from the Mongols, and Timurids, but I found that they mostly head to the Middle East.

**SMZ** · 12-13-2006, 00:35

Originally Posted by Musashi

The flaw in your Camel Gunners vs. (Insert missile infantry unit here) is that they outrange most (Most!) missile infantry, and they are significantly faster than an infantry unit, so you could easily keep them outside the range of say, Sudanese Gunners or Portugese Arquebussiers, use your entire ammunition store on them, and THEN charge.

true, good point...

so then I guess only Cossacks and Janissaries can hang with them.... still, that's a lot of micro-managing =/

**Musashi** · 12-13-2006, 03:45

Well, and Reiters would have them for lunch of course. Can't outrun them, they shoot, and fight better. That one's just no contest.

But in the context of a larger battle Camel Gunners are amazing... Reiters are a volley and charge unit, whereas Camel Gunners are long range flankers... Totally different role, and they're quite excellent at it.

As with any mounted missile troop, their value isn't in their one-to-one combat performance, but in their ability to project fire from remote locations.

**Varyar** · 12-13-2006, 21:31

What I think we can agree on, SMZ, is that the AI will usually lose regardless which of the units it controls. Thus the unit balance is fairly even.

Originally Posted by SMZ

With the gunpowder units, even charging - Janissaries, Cossacks, Portugese Arquebusiers and even Sudanese Gunners will still be able to beat the Camels because their melee stats are better and they have more men... in effect, closing to melee just hurries the Camels demise.

Again I have experience stating the opposite. In fact, since the Camel Gunners fire on the move, they are excellent at breaking infantry morale. You ride full speed while shooting, making the AI change to loose formation. Then you stop at close range and charge, and then finally just ride through to reform on the other side. Not even the Janissaries can take that, they turn and run. Despite their rather humble stats, the Camels does get the cavalry charge advantage. Quite versatile.

And if you managed to actually charge the camels with infantry, then you must agree that the AI greatly mismanaged the poor creatures.

**osb0t** · 12-14-2006, 20:54

Little shocked to see nobody mention the Danes.

Simply put, Obudshaers are the meanest infantry unit in Europe.

The Viking (Norse) Archers are also extremely rowdy. They remind me of Samurai Archers in STW, not only are they competent archers but they are very solid in hand to hand.

If you anchor your main battle line with Obudshaers and then protect your flanks with some of the other Danish infantry, well, short of HJI you are going to smash everything in front of you to tiny little bits.

With the very solid melee stats of those Archers, you can actually field shooter armies.

In terms of the Campaign, the Danes have more room to expand than the English and are nearly as isolated. Expansion into the Baltic and Finland will achieve you a rich trading network. Then you can slam into the HRE from the north while they are otherwise occupied.

Obviously there really is no way to state what the single most powerful faction is, however the Danes have some exceptionally powerful units with the ability to grow economically without much chance to come into conflict with a rival power until they are ready.

**SMZ** · 12-15-2006, 00:32

What I think we can agree on, SMZ, is that the AI will usually lose regardless which of the units it controls.

Aye - and I'll decorate my hat with gizzards!

Nice tactics there too.

**Snoil The Mighty** · 12-15-2006, 04:06

If by "most powerful faction" you are asking "what is the easiest nation to win with on Grand Campaign" I'd go with Spain. Once you've mopped up the Moors and brought the Portugese under your wing (for their own good of course!) the African/Med Islands is a cakewalk and adds scads of Florins to the treasury. With some many muslims lands to convert you have the College in your pocket with little and possibly even no effort at all. This is the best blessing of all because sooner or later, France will get excommed and your heavy influence with the Pontifex Maximus will allow you to crusade into into France as a Catholic Hero, with all the acolades that go with a crusade winner! Not as a sectarian troublemaker. From that point the only problem I have had is refraining from taking Jerusalem because I want to go to the Americas and build some conquistadores for fun

**Snoil The Mighty** · 12-15-2006, 06:36

Sorry for doubling on posts but I can't edit-I also forgot to metion that the Spanish mercantile capabilities are excellent. If, as I have, one leaves the capital in Cordoba, that distance from capital to merchant goodies makes the north european amber very valuable, as are the textiles near Belgium and Venice area, without devaluing the Timbuktu goodies too much (My 10 finance guy is pulling down over 1k per turn on one of the gold veins bvy himself). So, easy access to foes that give you the Pope's loyalty, excellent and varied unit roster, financial excellence within easy reach, corner map location for relative safety and easy-to-manage fronts makes this my choice for 'easiest faction to win Grand Campaign" with, if in fact that is the question

**Fisherking** · 12-15-2006, 07:09

Has no one played Sicily? They seem to have a nice mix no matter what time period you are in. The Norman Knights and dismounted Norman Knights are good reliable units. The Muslim archers are strong, their armored sergeants are good and as you tech up there are some fine units in there. They even have mounted crossbows at the top level of their archery range and their fleets are decent too.

I know that they have been a true pain in the rear when I have to play against them and they are a blast to play...even with the Puerto Rican accents.

**Musashi** · 12-15-2006, 07:26

Originally Posted by Fisherking

Has no one played Sicily? They seem to have a nice mix no matter what time period you are in. The Norman Knights and dismounted Norman Knights are good reliable units. The Muslim archers are strong, their armored sergeants are good and as you tech up there are some fine units in there. They even have mounted crossbows at the top level of their archery range and their fleets are decent too.

I know that they have been a true pain in the rear when I have to play against them and they are a blast to play...even with the Puerto Rican accents.

I've played Sicily, but they don't impress me compared to Milan and Venice.

**Kobal2fr** · 12-15-2006, 08:59

The problem with Milan and Venice is... well, Venice and Milan, respectively

.

Having started my first campaign with the Portuguese, I have to say they are a very, very powerful faction, better than the Spanish even. They really have it all : Jinettes of Doom, better pikemen, better riflemen, better footmen, better navy, excellent artillery, and of course, the Iberian peninsula itself which is almost up there with the British Isles on the strategical cheese scale. No wonder why they always seem to do so well in my other campaigns : the only thing they may lack is money, and a human player will make good use of Timbuktu to get that too. Scary faction