Uber Skirmishers

[soibean]

During a battle against Massilia, I think, as the Romans I came against the greek toxotai archers. Their stats listed their defense at a ten, and their attack at whatever, its not important for this thread. I attacked with my hastati, attack 11 I think. My men got out of the siege tower and jumped into the middle of the archers. The next wall section over another siege tower unloaded and a unit of principe jumped out and attacked the far side of the archers. Something like this:
(AAAAAAAAA)(HH)(AAA)(PPP)

The Principe slowly killed off their opponents and moved in behind the hastati. They couldnt move beyond their younger companions and simply watched the battle. Turns out my hastati were massacred by the archers somehow. Both units were exhausted, neither routed because we had good generals but they were no where class, but for whatever reason the archers high defense was ewnough to slaughter that unit.

I was led to believe that archers and other skirmishers, neglecting some of the barbarian types, were just about completely without armor and all they had to defend themselves in melee combat was a dagger... How is it that a man wearing a tunic and weilding a 4 inch dagger can defeat an armored roman?

Whole point of this thread was to say that I think archers and other skirmishers should have near to zero for defense, you can factor in if the skirmishers had a shield and all that but the basic missile units should be near zero. It would prove their vulnerability to actual melee units and prevent them from being used to hold the line against heavier infantry and cavalry. I still dont think the charge bonus is working since my Roman Cavalry can charge into archers from behind, kill 3, and then come to a complete stop and begin to get massacred by men weilding knives.

[fallen851]

I went into the EDU text and found Toxotai listed as:

stat_sec 8, 0, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.4
stat_pri_armour 2, 6, 0, flesh

So they have 8 attack and 8 defence. Attack and defense points are entirely equal in melee combat, so they have a total combat rating of 16. I don't know why it told you they had 10 defense, but for whatever reason let's assume you were right, that means they have a combat rating of 18 with a lethality of 0.4!

Hastati (Early) are listed below:

stat_sec 11, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 0 ,0.1
stat_pri_armour 7, 9, 3, flesh

So here, we have a total combat rating of 30, but their lethality is much lower.

I would imagine the lower lethality is why they lost. 0.1 compared to 0.4 is a huge difference.

Good find, hopefully the EB team will pick this up. The EDU text is riddled with errors like this, I think you'll like my rebalanced.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

I went into the EDU text and found Toxotai listed as:

stat_sec 8, 0, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.4
stat_pri_armour 2, 6, 0, flesh

So they have 8 attack and 8 defence. Attack and defense points are entirely equal in melee combat, so they have a total combat rating of 16. I don't know why it told you they had 10 defense, but for whatever reason let's assume you were right, that means they have a combat rating of 18 with a lethality of 0.4!

Hastati (Early) are listed below:

stat_sec 11, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 0 ,0.1
stat_pri_armour 7, 9, 3, flesh

So here, we have a total combat rating of 30, but their lethality is much lower.

I would imagine the lower lethality is why they lost. 0.1 compared to 0.4 is a huge difference.

Good find, hopefully the EB team will pick this up. The EDU text is riddled with errors like this, I think you'll like my rebalanced.

This is wrong:

stat_sec         8, 0, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.4

It should be 0.04 in lethality. The archers are getting a 10x increase in their kill rate.

Thanks for pointing this.

[soibean]

I was guessing at what the defense was, I couldnt remember whether or not it was 8 or 10 and didnt have the energy to sit through the game loading up just to check one stat and exit

glad I did somethig right for once

[QwertyMIDX]

Yeah the leathality was just missing a 0. Thanks for catching that.