Gunpowder Infantry, what's the best way to use them?

**parrrrk** · 12-12-2006, 19:49

By stats, they can be both missile infantry or melee infantry. But due to their lack of armor and relativly linear trajectory, I think they are neither quite good as first line melee units nor as support missile units(support missile units are supposed to shoot over the front line...right?).

So, what do you guys suggest? How do you use them once you can field gunpowder infantry?

**Musashi** · 12-12-2006, 19:58

I find they fire over a front row fine. The only time you have any problems is if your front line troops are slightly higher in elevation than the musketeers behind them...

**Trithemius** · 12-12-2006, 23:53

I use alternating front lines of melee and gunpowder troops. With the Turks I mix JHI and Jan. musketeers for my frontline, and have a second line, more widely spaced, with Fire At Will switched off in order to fill gaps or fire at anyone who breaks through.

**PaulTa** · 12-13-2006, 00:04

Generally gunpowder infantry are effective when you have them fire on the enemy.

I find that gunpowder is best right in front of an infantry line. You can have them demoralize the enemy before an infantry charge, which is probably their most effective use.

**Beren Son Of Barahi** · 12-13-2006, 00:25

I find them great as front line troops, the way i use them in pretty spimle.

i have them in 2 rows deep, in front with formations of pikemen directly behind them, so the pikes cover the front of them. i use 1 or 2 of these as my centre with another one on each side on a 30o angle, heavy infantry on each side with archers and heavy cav to protect the flanks. the AI is not passive with this formation, and most of the time approch it , horses will not charge most of the time, and the damage that many maskets will do with the archers as well plus any arty you have is out right scarey. each unit of muskets will kill (huge unit size) 20-30 units of anything per volley, plus the 5-10 with the arty and archers. that makes 70-90 units dead in the first volley. (i focus fire my units). i have the gunners on guard mode, so they fire even when units at the spears in front of them, this causes most units to rout pretty fast.

once they enter the trap the heavy infantry comes across on the flanks and the heavy horse charges the rear...

most of my armies look something like this.

5 pikes
5 muskets
2 archers
then the rest is changed depending on who i am against

* 2 heavy infantry
* 2 heavy horse
* 1 general

sometimes i will have more infantry or horses, sometimes ill have 3 musk/pikes and a few monster rebauts (sp?) or balisters in between the formations.

**dopp** · 12-13-2006, 00:55

Gunners are not alone in requiring clear line of sight in order to fire. Crossbows do too, their "fire into the air" trick seems to be buggy and hardly kills anything.

Musketeers need pikemen or some sort of tough infantry behind them to deter chargers and give them time to do their work.

Musketeers can skirmish but this is disabled by default. Turning skirmish on bypasses the bugged fire in ranks thing, actually resulting in a higher rate of fire (even though fire in ranks is supposed to speed up the reloading process, in practice the front rank won't fire until the back rank has completed reloading, making it a waste of time).

**Marius Dynamite** · 12-13-2006, 00:55

I usually deploy my gun troops directly infront of my Infantry. I find that Musketeers shoot better when 5 lines deep instead of just 2. If you put them in just 2 or 3, they will kill a lot in the first volley, but after that they tend to reload slower and get a little disorganised. When I put them in 4 or 5, the reload smooth and fast and get more accurate volleys in. I'm not sure but I think thats how those early musketeers fought, maybe thats why I find it effective. Of course sometimes I place them to only 2 or 3 lines deep if I think I will only get 1 volley or if I need a wider line or something.

You can also try using Archers behind your musketeers or behind the heavy Infantry behind the Musketeers. It slows down the enemy infantry charge allowing you that extra punishing volley into them which will rout them.

I also heard of a bug that Musketeers can shoot through loose formation troops infront of them.

**Musashi** · 12-13-2006, 03:28

I almost always deploy my musketeers behind a screen of heavy infantry... I've never had them have a problem firing over the heads of the squad in front of them unless it's an uphill slope and the heavy inf is higher up than the muskets...

They have a slight arc to their fire, just enough to shoot over other infantry.

**dopp** · 12-13-2006, 05:44

How far back is necessary for their shots to clear the heads of those in front? I have nasty memories of RTW archers shooting arrows directly into the heads of my urban cohorts in front of them...

**parrrrk** · 12-13-2006, 06:12

Originally Posted by Musashi

I almost always deploy my musketeers behind a screen of heavy infantry... I've never had them have a problem firing over the heads of the squad in front of them unless it's an uphill slope and the heavy inf is higher up than the muskets...

They have a slight arc to their fire, just enough to shoot over other infantry.

Hmm... I never thought they have "shoot over the front line" ability. It's a little awkward to imagine gunners not shooting directly to the face of enemies. Is this historically accurate or just workaround of RTW's infamous friend killing archer problem?

**dopp** · 12-13-2006, 06:16

Well, they did use machineguns like artillery in WWI to 'saturate' target areas with hails of bullets, but that's much later on. Musketeers wouldn't be able to see their noses after the first volley, let alone avoid hitting the fellows in front.

**Musashi** · 12-13-2006, 08:04

Doesn't matter what would happen in real life, it works in the game.

In MTW Arquebusiers would destroy any friendlies in front of them, but in this musketeers fire over the heads of another unit easily. It's best not to have them right behind the other unit though, but you wouldn't want them that close anyway (Too easy for enemies to break through and engage them if you do)

Additionally firearms with ammunition as heavy as the medieval battle musket would have a significant ballistic drop, so one assumes musketeers would have to aim higher than their target... So..

**ChewieTobbacca** · 12-13-2006, 10:45

Yes you can place them behind and it works pretty well...

I just tried putting my musketeers WITHIN my tercio pikemen formation and it works quite well actually... it protects musketeers from being hit by enemy cavalry while skirmishing and if they do charge with heavy knights, just pull them back behind the formation and itll work wonders