M2TW beast

[Yun Dog]

Warlords,

Im looking at dumping my old inspiron and upgrading to a new desktop - primarily to DESTROY M2TW and ANILHALATE NWN2. Ras Al Gul suggested I drop a line down here for any suggestions .. thanks Ras

I have a budget of $3k AUD

Heres what I was looking at via the dell website - although I wont be getting a DELL again

Intel Core 2 vii Duo E6700 proc (E6600 is also a cheaper option)
1gig DDR ram (2 gigs might be necessary?)
20" flat LCD ultra sharp (1600x1080)
250 GIG HD

I have a choice of graphics cards
256m Radeon x1300 pro
256m Geforce 7900
1GB Gforce 7950 (+$1000)
do you think I need a 512MB card? or will the 256m cards suffice for the price?

any suggestions/options most welcome and appreciated
my main choices that im unsure about are chipset, graphics card, and a motherboard that can handle it
I dont want to just run the M2TW - I want to LIVE IT

[Husar]

I don't know how much your 3k$ are worth, but I'd got for 2GB RAM and at least a 7950, you may want to consider a 8800GTS or GTX.
On the chipset i cannot comment, personally I am using a cheap one but may migrate to the new NVidia NForce 6 series somewhen.

[Yun Dog]

So Ive done some poking around and now think Ive goto go with a Dx10 enabled card - dont want to buy something redundant

has anyone got any suggestions for well priced quality cards they know will run M2TW without any probs

edit: is the 8800GTS dx10 compliant?

[Lemur]

If you want a DX10 card, the 8800s are the only game in town right now. Yes, the 8800gts is a DX10 card. Either card will run M2TW like a champ. Be warned, however, that by the time DX10 games are shipping, there will be smaller, cooler, better cards for DX10, and you will feel slightly deflated. But you'll be able to run those games without needing a new card, which will be more than the rest of us will say.

[Yun Dog]

cheers for that Lemur



Alot of dudes are talking about waiting for the R600 Ati card to come out - go for the R600 or the 8800Gts/x will be cheaper

but Ive also been reading the current CPU Chips are a bottleneck - and cant run the GPU at it full potential

so this said do I need to wait even longer for a chipset that can run the cards properly and then get the 2nd gen Dx10 card

but then I could wait for ever and never get to play any of the cool games I want to/at least on anything other than the lowest settings

[Yun Dog]

Ok gents,
heres the quote I got from my suppliers

AMS Intel Core 2 Dual E6600 PCI-E ATX System 1
* Intel Core-2-Duo CPU, E6600/2.4GHz/2MB Cache/1066FSB/LGA775
* Intel DG965RY ATX LGA775 Motherboard:-
- Intel G965 Chipset, Dual Channel DDR2 800/667/533 SDRAM,
- 6-channel (5.1) audio subsystem-SigmaTel* STAC9227 audio codec,
- Intel Graphics Media Accelerator X3000 onboard, 8 USB-2.0,
- Gigabit (10/100/1000 Mbits/sec) LAN, 4x SATA, 1x IDE, 1x Parallel,
- 1x Serial , 1x PCI Express x16, 3x PCI.
* 2GB KINGSTON DDR2 RAM (2x1GB Modules)
* 512MB 8800GTS Geforce Nvidia PCIExpress Video Card
* 250GB WD-KS SATA II Hard Disk (16MB, 7200rpm)
* 1.44MB Panasonic FDD Drive
* Pioneer 16x Dual-Layer DVD/CD Writter
* Inwin Midi Tower ATX Case with 350W P/S
* 22" ViewSonic VX2235WM Wide-Screen LCD Monitor
* Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP2 OEM CD

Ive been reading from another thread that maybe I should opt for the
Asus P5B-E Socket 775 Intel 965 Express MB

Thermaltake Silent PurePower W0049RUC 680W Active PFC, EPS 12V and ATX 12V 2.2 Version
power supply

thoughts????

[Husar]

A silent PSU shouldn't hurt, can't say much about the better motherboard though, I'd personally take an NVidia Nforce 6 series if they are out yet.

[Lemur]

Looks like a truly next-gen rig, man. Two thoughts:

1. Do you really need a floppy drive? If so, why?
2. Is a 250 gig HD going to be enough? Or are you planning on slapping in another one down the road?

[Husar]

Do you really need a floppy drive? If so, why?

Isn't a floppy drive needed to install SATA drivers in order to install Win XP?
I heard you need either a floppy drive or USB device or something like that.
This is one of the reasons I don't have an SATA HDD yet, I simply don't have a floppy drive anymore and don't want to buy an USB stick either so I'm curious now.

[Lemur]

I wasn't aware of any SATA limitation on WinXP installs -- in fact, I've been re-installing all over the place on my SATA-only system. Then again, I'm using WinXP Service Pack 2, so perhaps that makes a difference. But any edition of XP you can buy will be SP2, right?

You might need a floppy for RAID installs, but even then there's very little you can do with a floppy that you can't do with a burned CD. I was told that running MemeTest86 required a floppy: untrue! There's a CD-image version one can download.

I'm hard-pressed to think of any reason a regular consumer would require a floppy drive. Death to the FD!

[Husar]

My XP CD is rather old, it doesn't even have SP1 and for obvious reasons I'm not going to buy a new one, I heard you have to press F6 to install additional drivers and then install SATA drivers from some other device. Since your copy seems to include SP2 I think that explains why you have no problems.

[Lemur]

If you're feeling adventurous, you could always create your own slipstreamed copy of WinXP using the version you already have ... that's how I wound up with mine ...

[Husar]

Thanks for the advice Lemur, I definitely want to try that, just need to find someone whose computer I can use to do it with since I replaced my burner with an ordinary DVD drive.

[Yun Dog]

Ya I thought that about the floppy too - but then I did just fry my laptop MB doing a bios update from the HD - so a floppy can have its uses

re the 250 gig - ya maybe not enough - but i do have a 120 gig dog with all my stuff on it... and getting another one is easy..

thanks for the wisdom

what about that MB - looks like its got onboard graphics and sound - redundant? - shouldnt i go for some sort of creative sound card?

[Lemur]

what about that MB - looks like its got onboard graphics and sound - redundant? - shouldnt i go for some sort of creative sound card?

Yup, the onboard graphics are a waste of silicon. But if the rest of the mobo is what you want, there's no real problem. I assumed you had chosen that one for a reason.

As for a sound card, that's a matter of personal preference. In the bad old days of single-core machines, a sound card was nice in that it would take some of the load off the CPU in games. These days it's arguable how much difference a sound card makes.

Admittedly, a nice whitebox Audigy will sound better than onboard sound, but it all depends on how good your speakers or headphones are. Like I said, it's a matter of personal preference -- would you like to get a marginal frame rate boost and slightly better sound, or would you rather keep that PCI slot free for something else?

[Yun Dog]

no the only reason that MB is on the list is thats the one my supplier has suggested ... and I no NOTHING about MBs

so if you have any recommendations please feel free to make a suggestion


ya - its good to know that sound iks no longer an issue - used to be alot more critical

[Lorenzo_H]

I have a 256mb Nvidia 6 series and it runs M2TW fine. I personally prefer Nvidia to ATI but I guess its all down to personal opinion. As for the motherboard, I don't think you need to worry much, just make sure it's compatible with the video chipset you buy (I think there are two versions availible).

[Lemur]

no the only reason that MB is on the list is thats the one my supplier has suggested ... and I no NOTHING about MBs

so if you have any recommendations please feel free to make a suggestion

As I said in another thread, I'm running a 975 board, and it's doing fine. But most people who are building Core2Duo machines are going with 965 boards, so bear that in mind.

It's kinda pointless for me to recommend a particular make of mobo when I have no idea which brands/models your supplier offers. As long as you go with a name-brand mobo with a modern chipset such as the 965, you shouldn't be able to go too far wrong.

It's never a bad idea to read the reviews at NewEgg. One or two people screaming blue murder is no big deal, just remember that if a product is truly flawed the reviews will be overwhelmingly negative.

Could someone brief a lemur on the differences between the P965 and G965 chipsets?

[DukeofSerbia]

Yunus Dogus
I will post you beast for day or two.


Lemur:
G965 has integrated graphics and P965 not which you know.

[Lemur]

Lemur:
G965 has integrated graphics and P965 not which you know.

Well, now I know. Thanks!

[LeftEyeNine]

I have a 256mb Nvidia 6 series and it runs M2TW fine. I personally prefer Nvidia to ATI but I guess its all down to personal opinion. As for the motherboard, I don't think you need to worry much, just make sure it's compatible with the video chipset you buy (I think there are two versions availible).

You need to worry about the heart of your system, diablodelmar.

[Husar]

You need to worry about the heart of your system, diablodelmar.

That's why I'm surprised my cheapo motherboard is running nicely for quite some time now while having great upgrade capabilities. Next up should be an NForce 6 board, that's where I would go for Core 2 Duo, doesn't need to be a big SLI beast for >300€, something between 100€ and 200€ should suffice.
Call me an NVidiot but that's what I am.

[DukeofSerbia]

@Yunus Dogus

As I promised…

* Intel Core-2-Duo CPU, E6600/2.4GHz/2MB Cache/1066FSB/LGA775

Good. If you know how to overclock then buy E6400.

* Intel DG965RY ATX LGA775 Motherboard:-
- Intel G965 Chipset, Dual Channel DDR2 800/667/533 SDRAM,
- 6-channel (5.1) audio subsystem-SigmaTel* STAC9227 audio codec,
- Intel Graphics Media Accelerator X3000 onboard, 8 USB-2.0,
- Gigabit (10/100/1000 Mbits/sec) LAN, 4x SATA, 1x IDE, 1x Parallel,
- 1x Serial , 1x PCI Express x16, 3x PCI.

Junk! Don’t buy it. It has integrated graphics. This is the best: ASUS P5B Deluxe or Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6.

* 2GB KINGSTON DDR2 RAM (2x1GB Modules)

Not bad. On what frenquency are they?

* 512MB 8800GTS Geforce Nvidia PCIExpress Video Card

Don’t buy DX 10 card! Reasons (from New system thread https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...7&postcount=17 ):

- DX 10 games will not come in market for at least half year and massive for year or even more (depend from sale of Vista).
- DX 10 will work only with Vista and how many computers will still use XP?
- Only nVidia sell DX 10, so until ATI don’t present it prices of nVidia models will be high and ATI will be better (I can bet from what I read).
- nVidia sell DX 10 cards because of excellent marketing.
- DX 9.0c graphics cards (GeForce 7xxx and Radeon X1xxx) are 100% Vista compatible - even the cheapest 7300 and 1300!

Radeon X1950Pro or better Radeon X1900XT 256 MB will run smoothly most of the games in resolution 1280x1024.

* 250GB WD-KS SATA II Hard Disk (16MB, 7200rpm)

Excellent choice!

* 1.44MB Panasonic FDD Drive
* Pioneer 16x Dual-Layer DVD/CD Writter

Demand Pioneer DVR 111D.

* Inwin Midi Tower ATX Case with 350W P/S

Never heard.
350W?! What? You supplier is total idiot (no offense). How supplier think to put GeForce 8800GTS and Core 2 Duo processor on some Inwin 350W PSU? Does supplier joking or what?

* 22" ViewSonic VX2235WM Wide-Screen LCD Monitor

Better invest in good PSU and case.

* Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP2 OEM CD

Wise choice because Home edition is not good.

Ive been reading from another thread that maybe I should opt for the
Asus P5B-E Socket 775 Intel 965 Express MB

As I said ASUS P5B Deluxe or Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6.

Thermaltake Silent PurePower W0049RUC 680W Active PFC, EPS 12V and ATX 12V 2.2 Version
power supply

If you abandon idea about DX 10 card 500W will be enough.

[DukeofSerbia]

And now my dear Lemur…

Yup, the onboard graphics are a waste of silicon. But if the rest of the mobo is what you want, there's no real problem. I assumed you had chosen that one for a reason.

You probably know that Intel is the largest manufacturer of graphics cards.

As for a sound card, that's a matter of personal preference. In the bad old days of single-core machines, a sound card was nice in that it would take some of the load off the CPU in games. These days it's arguable how much difference a sound card makes.

Admittedly, a nice whitebox Audigy will sound better than onboard sound, but it all depends on how good your speakers or headphones are. Like I said, it's a matter of personal preference – would you like to get a marginal frame rate boost and slightly better sound, or would you rather keep that PCI slot free for something else?

I agree with except what I bolded. Good sound card is useless without good speakers. And it is sin to plug good (expensive) speakers to integrated audio card. And there is huge difference between crippled integrated solutions in motherboards and independent sound card.

As I said in another thread, I'm running a 975 board, and it's doing fine. But most people who are building Core2Duo machines are going with 965 boards, so bear that in mind.

There are already in market (even in Serbia they arrived) motherboard based on older Intel 945P. And they are cheaper from P965 and in reality they are almost 100% same (except P965 only support SATA). ASUS, Gigabyte and MSI already sell 945P models with possibility to put C2D processor. There is no difference between ordinary P965 models and revision of 945P. Only top P965 models will have CrossFire (ATI and Intel agreement) and that’s it. Plus better o/c possibility but the most people don’t o/c their computers. Ordinary P965 models will probably die…

[Yun Dog]

Thanks DukeofSerbia

your comments are noted - I will probably get back to my supplier in the new year

Re: power supply - yeh I thought so to - but basically I didnt specify at the time - it appears he isnt getting paid for advice - just to buy what I request.

Yeh Ive read that stuff regarding Dx10 cards and vista
but my rational behind it - get the card now and save having to upgrade in a years time

I mean the 8800 will smoke all the current games - right? - and then be able to step up - when the time comes in a year or more

I could go for the cheaper cards now and upgrade in a year or so - and I would probably come out even as far as cost

Yeh I heard something about Feb for the ATI card - it may be better - no doubt the 8800s will come down in price then - if I can wait

so I agree with all your points re the Dx 10 card - but if Ive got the money - why not just get it now - and not have to upgrade in a year - I want to upgrade now - an analogy - I could wait till LCD TVs are cheaper - or do I want to watch the world cup on a new LCD TV now, while the world cups on - things will always be cheaper in the future if you can wait - but then, when do you stop waiting ? - by the time you buy the LCD tv - theres something better out.

theres always something new that if you wait will be cheaper - at some point you decide to make a purchase - this is my point - because I saw M2TW on a mates machine last weekend - with the graphics turned up - and it looked quality - at the moment Im playing low settings (looks like RTW)/M2TW Im not going to wait till Im bored with the game till Im able to play it in its graphical glory.

thanks for the advice - I will certainly be taking on most of it

[Lemur]

Yeh Ive read that stuff regarding Dx10 cards and vista
but my rational behind it - get the card now and save having to upgrade in a years time

I mean the 8800 will smoke all the current games - right? - and then be able to step up - when the time comes in a year or more

I could go for the cheaper cards now and upgrade in a year or so - and I would probably come out even as far as cost

You're making plenty of sense. Read the reviews and benchmarks -- the 8800s utterly destroy all other cards in DX9 titles. How they will perform in DX10 is an open question, but there's no doubt that they will perform, which is more than the lemur can say about his 1900.

If I were building a rig right now, I would either go with the cheapest of all possible DX9 cards and wait for a year, or I would slap an 8800 into the case. I certainly would not purchase a high-end DX9 card right now. There's no compelling reason to do so.

[Beirut]

If I were building a rig right now, I would either go with the cheapest of all possible DX9 cards and wait for a year, or I would slap an 8800 into the case. I certainly would not purchase a high-end DX9 card right now. There's no compelling reason to do so.

Indeed.

In some countries you would be jailed for inciting revolution.

[Husar]

Well, there are other things to keep in mind, for example that Dx10 is Vista exclusive and Vista costs a lot, especially the Ultimate version costs about as much as a new video card. I recently got a new 7950GT and I got it mainly because it's cheaper and because it also uses a lot less energy, that means I can save a lot of money one energy costs until those manufacturers finally get the current CPU trend and produce some good video cards that don't use huge amount of energy.