New system

**Taohn** · 12-13-2006, 00:35

I need to upgrade my rig. Badly. I'm running a Pentium II 450 that has developed a penchant for crashing at the slightest provocation (I think I bought it back in '97

). It's given me years of faithful service through much abuse, but it's time to retire it. I have a budget of $2000 Canadian (~1734 USD). I've done a lot of reading and put together a list of components that total up to just under budget after taxes. There's a lot of good advice to be had here, so i was hoping you guys could review the list and make some suggestions. In my choice of parts I tried to balance power, longevity, and price. I was going to try to build this one myself (first time), though I have a knowledgeable friend who can help me out in a pinch. Here's what I came up with:

CPU

$369.99 Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4 GHz (1066MHz) 4MB L2 CacheSocket 775 Processor

I think this offers the best balance between power (and longevity) and price. The value of the 6300/6400 is tempting, especially considering the great overclocking, but I don’t have much experience in that area.

MOTHERBOARD

No idea here, could really use some advice. I’d like to stay around $200 unless there’s a really good reason to splurge on the motherboard (like 680i). Like I said, I’m not really into overclocking, but I’d like to learn eventually. So a board that will last a good while (maybe support a processor upgrade in a couple years) and offers some decent features would be ideal. These seemed all right from reading some reviews and the threads around here.

$184.99 Asus P5B-E Socket 775 Intel 965 Express + ICH8R Chipset Dual-Channel DDR2 533/667/800 Gigabit Lan Intel High Definition Audio Firewire e-SATA PCI-Express Graphics Slots 6xSATAII Support Core 2 Duo Processor

-OR-

$199.99 Asus P5B Deluxe Socket 775 Intel P965 Express + ICH8R Chipset Dual-Channel DDR2 533/667/800 8-Channel High Definition Audio Dual Gigabit Lan Firewire Dual PCI-Express Graphic Slots 8 Phase Power Design Heat Pipe Stack Cool 2

HARD DRIVE

$109.99 Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB SATA NCQ 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache (OEM)

-OR-

$109.99 Western Digital (WD3200KS) Caviar 320GB SATAII 7200RPM 16MB Buffer (OEM)

Anandtech did a comparison of these drives. The WD is better for games and the like, but the Seagate has a 3 year warranty, so I’m leaning in that direction.

MEMORY

$300.00 max for arguments sake, ideally lower. No idea about brand etc. 2 Gigs would be best, I guess. Don't really want to spend more on RAM than CPU, so I could definitely be talked into buying 1 gig, and waiting for the price to come down before adding a second. There seem to be some good deals here, particularly from OCZ:

$199.99 OCZ (OCZ26672048ELGEGXT-K) DDR2 PC2-5400 667MHz EL Gold Edition 2GB (2X1024MB) Dual Channel Kit

-OR-

$259.99 OCZ (OCZ2G8002GK) DDR2-800 PC2-6400 Gold XTC 2GB (2x1024MB) Dual Channel Kit

Is the jump from 5400 to 6400 worth it in terms of performance?

CASE

$164.99 Antec P180 Innovative three-layer side panel case (aluminum, plastic, aluminum)

-OR-

$149.99 Antec P180B Black Innovative three-layer side panel case (aluminum, plastic, aluminum)

Same case, right? Why not if it's $20 less? Also open to other (cheaper) suggestions, but I'm hoping to re-usefor a new system in the future

I’ve read good things about this case, but it’s apparently kind of tricky to wire, so motherboard layout is important, but I’m not sure how to pick the right one.

POWER SUPPLY

no idea. should be from a reputable brand, ~500 – 600 watts, right? These seem like good deals:

$129.99 Thermaltake Silent PurePower W0049RUC 680W Active PFC, EPS 12V and ATX 12V 2.2 Version

$109.99 OCZ (OCZ600GXSSLI) GameXStream 600 Watt Power Supply, Dual GPU, SLI compable

DVD

$34.79 Samsung SH-S182D/BEBN Super-WriteMaster DVDRW 18X/18X BLACK

Is there a drive that really stands out or are they all pretty much the same?

VIDEO CARD

Toughest choice. 8800 series is over budget, and I think it would be wise to wait for the tech to mature a bit and for more cards to become available. But I found a BFG 8800 GTS for $519, so it seems wasteful to spend $400+ on a Dx9 card. So I’d like get a decent performer for anywhere between $200 to 300. Some ideas:

$249.97 BFG GeForce 7950 GT / 512MB GDDR3 / SLI / PCI Express / Dual DVI / HDTV / Video Card

$247.99 HIS Radeon X1650 Pro IceQ Turbo / 512MB GDDR3 / PCI Express / Dual DVI / HDTV / CrossFire Ready

$247.99 HIS Radeon X1650 Pro Silence II / 512MB GDDR3

what’s the difference between #2 and 3?

$249.99 Powercolor X1950Pro ATI Radeon X1950Pro Chipset 256MB PCI-Express

MONITOR

May hold off on monitor, but 20” LCD widescreen if I do get one. Right now I’m thinking either:

$339.99 Samsung SyncMaster 205BW Black Flat panel display TFT 20" 1680 x 1050 / 60 Hz 300 cd/m2 600:1 6 ms 0.258 mm DVI, VGA (HAS version)

-OR-

$219.99 Sceptre X20WG Naga / 20.1" / 5ms / 1000:1 / WSXGA+ 1680 x 1050 / DVI-VGA / Black / Widescreen LCD Monitor with Speakers

Great price on the second one, but I’ve never heard of the brand, so I read the reviews on Newegg. Mostly positive, but stand is supposedly pretty flimsy and the specs are somewhat inferior to the Samsung, despite their being the same size (e.g. 16.2 million colours vs. 16.7 for Samsung, which also has lower pixel pitch). Samsung has a better policy on dead pixels, too. You get what you pay for, so most likely the Samsung.

So that's it. I'm hoping to score some deals come boxing day,but is it better to buy now? Thanks in advance for the help!

**Yun Dog** · 12-13-2006, 03:16

U sure u dont want to wait for the dx10 enable cards - I mean if your upgrading may as well get a rig thats good for a coupla years

Geforce 8800GTS or the soon to appear Ati R600 - both will cost a penny but - I have a similar thread down the page

**Lemur** · 12-13-2006, 06:08

Wow, that's a lot of detail. I have a P180 case, and I have to say it's fantastic. Quiet, quiet, quiet. You won't be sad for getting it.

I also have the Core2Duo 6600, which I agree is the sweet spot on the performance/price curve.

Of the video cards you named, I expect the 1950 pro would give you the most pleasure, but I second Yunus's question -- can you wait for DX10 cards? Some are here already, and more will come soon. They're supposed to be monsters, even on DX9 titles.

I find the power supply to be a real problem in terms of noise; most of them have 80mm fans which kick up to an annoying whine when temperatures rise. I agree that something in the 500-750 watt should be fine for a while. Just look and see if you can find one with a 120mm fan -- big fans turning slowly are the lemur's answer to loud PCs. The Thermaltake Toughpower line is worth looking at; I have one and it's silent thanks to the big 140mm fan. Here's a review of the 750w model, and here's the full line-up.

Asus makes a nice mobo, and the 965 chipset has the smell of minty freshness. Can't go wrong there.

If you're going to live with a single drive, it's worth considering whether or not to go with something a little bigger than 320 megs. Depends on your media habits, really. Nothing chews up HD space like video -- for instance, my brother is in the process of compressing every DVD he owns to Divx, and he needs lots of room to make his life easy. With hard drives, bigger tends to be better. Western Digital makes a line of server-class hard drives which have very high tolerances, worth considering, especially if you're naughty about not making backups. Users at NewEgg think they're great.

You shouldn't sweat the RAM -- Core2Duo CPUs are a lot less latency-dependent than we're used to with the AMD64s, so getting 2 gigs of RAM at the right speed should do. No need to pay for fancy-boy city RAM.

DVD drives are all pretty similar, but some people have a fetish for Plextor. I've never put one into a rig, so I can't say why, exactly.

Samsung makes a killer LCD, very good choice there, but you should also look at what Dell's got available. I know two gamers who bought Dell widescreens and they're very, very happy.

I probably missed one of your categories, so feel free to bash us all about the head and shoulders with more questions.

**Beirut** · 12-13-2006, 17:34

Hey Toronto,

Is there still that half Jewish, half Chinese restaurant downtown called Ginsburg and Wong. What a place. Must be twenty years ago at least since I ate there.

Looks like you're going to have a great setup.

Can't go wrong with an Asus MB. Should get an SLI model if you can.

Like Lemur said, don't sweat the RAM. I have 2Gigs of Kingston and all is fine. I did notice the difference between 1 and 2 gigs. Get good RAM, but you don't really need to get the super expensive stuff.

I stand by my Viewsonic 19" VX922. Looks great, very fast refresh rate, no ghosting even when my flightsims get fast and furious, and it isn't that expensive these days. Maybe $300. Though several people here are saying the new Samsung LCDs are very nice too.

I've used both Powercolor and BFG video cards and both worked very well. BFG, far as I've seen, always gets good reviews. if you can afford an Nvidia 8800, go for it. The thing screams in DX9. As for DX10, well, that's a tooth fairy that has yet to leave a quarter under the pillow. And you'll need a new pillow to see that quarter too, a la MS Vista.

I'm split between the 7950 and 1950. Honestly, it's personal preference. In either case you're getting a great card. I think the top of the line X1950XTX is very fast, very expensive, and very loud.

**LeftEyeNine** · 12-13-2006, 18:35

Hey there,

I did not hear much positive stuff about Asus PB5 models, Gigabyte has DS3 models that are highly regarded around.

**Beirut** · 12-13-2006, 18:50

It was the ASUS SLI AN8 series I was speaking of. Those are the ones I read the reviews of.

**Taohn** · 12-13-2006, 20:45

Thanks for the advice!

Originally Posted by Lemur

Of the video cards you named, I expect the 1950 pro would give you the most pleasure, but I second Yunus's question -- can you wait for DX10 cards? Some are here already, and more will come soon. They're supposed to be monsters, even on DX9 titles.

I could wait (maybe a MB with integrated graphics would be okay until then? see below)

I find the power supply to be a real problem in terms of noise; most of them have 80mm fans which kick up to an annoying whine when temperatures rise. I agree that something in the 500-750 watt should be fine for a while. Just look and see if you can find one with a 120mm fan -- big fans turning slowly are the lemur's answer to loud PCs. The Thermaltake Toughpower line is worth looking at; I have one and it's silent thanks to the big 140mm fan.

Both models I listed have 120mm fans; is it much quieter with 140? You've kind of sold me on the idea. I found some good deals here Especially the 750 watt at $164 after rebate, considering the other places I looked were offereing it for ~$230 (no rebate).

You shouldn't sweat the RAM -- Core2Duo CPUs are a lot less latency-dependent than we're used to with the AMD64s, so getting 2 gigs of RAM at the right speed should do. No need to pay for fancy-boy city RAM.

So I should pounce on the $199 RAM? It's $60 dollars off right now ($30 mail in ends in a couple days).

Samsung makes a killer LCD, very good choice there, but you should also look at what Dell's got available. I know two gamers who bought Dell widescreens and they're very, very happy.

I had a look at the 20 inch dell for $329. Very tempting...lower response time, higher contrast ration, height adjustment, same warranty and dead pixel policy.

On Beirut's suggestion I also looked at this Viewsonic, but while it's the cheapest of the lot, it says "8ms gray-to-gray (avg.); 16ms white-black-white." The Dell and Samsung didn't have their response times broken down like this. What exactly does that mean?

Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine

I did not hear much positive stuff about Asus PB5 models, Gigabyte has DS3 models that are highly regarded around.

I loked at some Gigabyte offerings, but the one's in my price range have ICH8 chipset, as opposed to ICH8R (which the Asus boards do have). Does this make a difference? The GA-965G-DS3 also has integrated Graphics, which could tide me over until more Dx10 cards become available. Is that an okay solution? I also read that there's going to be a second wave of 965 boards coming out soon. Should I wait for that?

Thanks again for your help. (Beirut, I'm afraid Ginsberg and Wong's is long gone)

**Beirut** · 12-13-2006, 21:11