Interficio quod Scrupulosa [Concluded]

[Kagemusha]

You know Kommodus,if i were a mafioso in this game.I would let you live after your speech.I hope that in this game the experienced players wont be butchered right from the start.

[Don Corleone]

No offense, but as somebody who's not an 'experienced player' I kinda resent the idea that we should be lined up as ritual sacrafices first for assasinations/lynchings. Is that our new rule? Lynch all the newbies first, cause if it is, I suspect we're going to have a hard time getting new people to start playing.

What's more, does Kommodus start every game with threats, that if he gets assasinated or lynched, he's going to pull out all the stops? It almost sounds like he's suggesting that he'll bend the rules.

How about if we wait for some kills and descriptions before we start making any declarations on who should get lined up for lynching?

[Kommodus]

No offense, but as somebody who's not an 'experienced player' I kinda resent the idea that we should be lined up as ritual sacrafices first for assasinations/lynchings. Is that our new rule? Lynch all the newbies first, cause if it is, I suspect we're going to have a hard time getting new people to start playing.

DC... I'm not trying to establish a new "principle" concerning who lives and who dies. It's just that, sheesh, I've made an early exit to every game for like, three games in a row. Two early assassinations, one early lynching. Can you blame me for not wanting it to happen again?

What's more, does Kommodus start every game with threats, that if he gets assasinated or lynched, he's going to pull out all the stops? It almost sounds like he's suggesting that he'll bend the rules.

No, I don't start games this way. This is the only time I've done it. I wouldn't have done it had I not established a clear pattern of pinpointing the mafia with my analytical methods - that's what enables me to make the claim.

And how exactly would I "bend the rules?" I'm not the game moderator, and I can't hack into the .org, so don't have access to any information that the rest of you lack. "Pulling out all the stops" refers to the energy and creativity with which I'll go after the mafia.

[Don Corleone]

Alright, alright. I see your point. You have been a high profile target for both sides in every game I've been in (that'd be back to GF2). It wasn't just your post. Kagemusha's follow-on (and he has been staying late into games) seemed to indicate that newbies should all get killed early and older players should be left alive for a while. I'm just saying that if we want to expand the normal circle of mafia to new players, that's not a good policy to employ.

[Xiahou]

Were I a rebel, I'd be tempted to kill you anyhow- just to show we're not afraid of your threats.

OTOH, since you've drawn such attention to yourself, letting you live might keep the senate guessing- they may even lynch you themselves.

Then there's yet another possibility- that you yourself are a rebel and this is just some elaborate ruse. If you were a rebel and the town lynches you, you've already got yourself an excuse for not helping the senate find your partner. And if you're not murdered, it's because of your threat- not because you are in fact a rebel.

Curious statement indeed...

[Kommodus]

Were I a rebel, I'd be tempted to kill you anyhow- just to show we're not afraid of your threats.

OTOH, since you've drawn such attention to yourself, letting you live might keep the senate guessing- they may even lynch you themselves.

Then there's yet another possibility- that you yourself are a rebel and this is just some elaborate ruse. If you were a rebel and the town lynches you, you've already got yourself an excuse for not helping the senate find your partner. And if you're not murdered, it's because of your threat- not because you are in fact a rebel.

Curious statement indeed...

[GeneralHankerchief]

Actually, in Godfather 2 our original plan was to execute the veteran players early on (pretty successful, as we nailed Kommodus and Sasaki in successive rounds ), leaving only the newbies alive.

Seriously, the strategies, especially the mafia strategies, evolve so much that I wouldn't worry about it. If it was considered cutting-edge three games ago, it's probably outdated by now.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Then there's yet another possibility- that you yourself are a rebel and this is just some elaborate ruse. If you were a rebel and the town lynches you, you've already got yourself an excuse for not helping the senate find your partner. And if you're not murdered, it's because of your threat- not because you are in fact a rebel.

Curious statement indeed...

This is what I was thinking. I bet Kommodus's own system would point at him given his behavior so far.

[Reenk Roink]

Hmm... you "senators" (why such a fine label be given to you women is beyond my intellect) are too timid in your speeches...

I, Reenkaficsio, issue an ultimatum!

To address the Rebel slaves:

Know that if Kommodus possesses his life past this coming night then you have given the senate a couple of insights, both being beneficial to us, and detrimental to you:

1) Kommodus is indeed in league with you slaves, and you will have given his identity away to us. We shall then indeed inflict on him such torture the likes of which no Carthaginian hath faced!

2) You are indeed a most effete group, and by being intimidated in such a fashion, we shall have no great task in rooting you out and crucifying you, leaving your carcasses on display along the country roads, with feces tiaras.

And now to address my fellow senators:

If Kommodus is indeed left alive, we must execute him ourselves. He has easily become a most worthy bride for my sword.

And now to address Kommodus:

If you indeed are innocent, we will use augurs to interpret your information in our search. Do not be lax!

Remember: Reenkaficsio for emperor!

[Kagemusha]

Reenks what the hell are you talking about?

[Kagemusha]

Alright, alright. I see your point. You have been a high profile target for both sides in every game I've been in (that'd be back to GF2). It wasn't just your post. Kagemusha's follow-on (and he has been staying late into games) seemed to indicate that newbies should all get killed early and older players should be left alive for a while. I'm just saying that if we want to expand the normal circle of mafia to new players, that's not a good policy to employ.

Don my friend.I only expressed my individual opinion there. All players only have their opinions.What did i do wrong when i encouraged that the experienced players shouldnt be butchered in the first rounds? In two of the latest mafia games that happened and how those games played out? Two loss for the mafia.Becouse by killing of the many experienced players the mafia also made sure that those persons were innocent.Look,im not advocating the lynching and killing of the newbies here. But that its not viable mafia tactics to solemly target the experienced players.I know that some reason you think that im a dangerous player.But im just as dangerous of any other player in this game .

[Ituralde]

I don't think I fully understood the conswquences Kommodus has stated in his post. There are, I think three scenarios:

1) The Rebels kill you early on and now you will hunt them down ruthlessly.

2) The Senators (or maybe even the Rebels in their role als Senator) lynch you in the first few round and you turn your back on this game an won't help the Senate.

3) You survive the first few rounds and are now bound by your promise to give the Rebels some leeway, meaning that you will not help the Senate with full force.

So the only way to get you to investigate the Rebels the way you've done it in previous games would be if the Rebels killed you. Otherwise we Senators could not benefit from your deductions, because you stated to not give them to us.
I find this rather strange...


Just remember Kommodus that, as a Senator, the goal of the game is not to live but to uncover the Rebels. The only case, where surviving would be beneficial is when you are a Rebel, although it is not strictly necessary.

[doc_bean]

I'd probably kill Kommodus if I was a rebel, just because he issued a challenge and what kind of Senator would turn his back to that ? I think probably half the players feel the same, not the best move you could have made if you wanted to live Komm.
Then again, the mafia might decide to not kill you and see if you get lynched, or simply wait three or four rounds, just to spread confusion. This might be to their benefit too. I see this as a lose-lose situation for the loyal senators, very suspicous. Of course, the tone of your post makes it sounds like you're not willing to give tracking down the rebels a lot of effort anyway, why are you playing then ?

Very strange...

Also: Reenk, wtf is your post about ? Either Kommodus should get killed or we should execute him ? What's your reasoning ? It's not like he said he was the detective and posted a PM or anything like that. He has a higher chance of getting killed than usual, I agree, but no where near 100%, so i don't see how we would always benefit from lynching him early.

See, the confusion has already begun, this is going to keep us busy for a few nights and hinder our efforts of fining the real (or other) rebels.

[Sir Moody]

Consul Csar slept well that night and awoke to no new murders, surely this was a good sign and that the letter was a poor joke. It was not to be so...

Senator Fatum Rodent, known affectionatly by his friends as "the Crazed Rabbit" was taking an early morning bath, he only loved 2 things in life and intrigue was one of them. While he considered the events of the day before, analysing which senators would be most likely to be Rebels his second love walked in, a beautiful slave girl. So distracted by the Slave as she walked through depositing towels he didnt notice the shadow creeping over him or the leather strap wrap around his neck. His last thought was he would never know the slave girls name...

Hearing the news Csar called an emergency sitting of the senate and rushed to meet them. While the Senators were gathering Venenum Masy was having to endure the usual greetings. As a powerful and very rich senator he was well used to the hand shakes and back slaps before a senate meeting and frankly found it dull. When csar arrived the Senators filed in and took their seats. As Csar began his opening speech Venenum realised the senate was awfully cold today and began to shiver, the shiver became shakes and the shakes became an uncontrollable fit. Csar ran to the dieing senator but could find no vitiable injury's except a small needle prick at the back of his neck...

"Friends the rebels have stuck and 2 of our great senators are dead it is our duty to find their killers and execute them - the senate floor is now open and one of us shall be executed before tonight - may the gods let us chose correctly!"

Alive
Sasaki Kojiro
Don Corleone
Kagemusha
Kommodus
Ituralde
Destroyer of Hope
Caius Flaminius
Csar
GeneralHankerchief
doc_bean
Craterus
Reenk Roink
Xiahou
Peasant Phill
AggonyDuck
Proletariat
Dutch_guy
JimBob

Dead
Crazed Rabbit
Masy

Executed



Voting is open and will close at noon tommorow

[Sasaki Kojiro]

[I]Consul Csar slept well that night and awoke to no new murders, surely this was a good sign and that the letter was a poor joke. It was not to be so...

Senator Fatum Rodent, known effectionatly by his friends as "the Crazed Rabbit" was taking an early morning bath, he only loved 2 things in life and intregue was one of them. While he considered the events of the day before, anaylsing which senators would be most likely to be Rebels his second love walked in, a beutiful slave girl. So distracted by the Slave as she walked through depositing towels he didnt notice the shadow creeping over him or the leather strap wrap around his neck. His last thought was he would never know the slave girls name...

Hearing the news Csar called an emergancy sitting of the senate and rushed to meet them. While the Senators were gathering Venenum Masy was having to endure the usual greetings. As a powerful and very rich senator he was well used to the hand shakes and back slaps before a senate meeting and frankly found it dull. When csar arrived the Senators filed in and took their seats. As Csar began his opening speach Venenum relised the senate was awfully cold today and began to shiver, the shiver became shakes and the shakes became an uncontrolable fit. Csar ran to the dieing senator but could find no visiable injury's except a small needle prick at the back of his neck...

The mafia are OBVIOUSLY terrible spellers.

n.b. it can't be sir moody because the first post has immaculate spelling.

[Dutch_guy]

The mafia are OBVIOUSLY terrible spellers.

n.b. it can't be sir moody because the first post has immaculate spelling.

Or someone who doesn't quite understand how to use Spell check.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Or someone who doesn't quite understand how to use Spell check.

No. If you search the gameroom for these misspelled words they only place they show up is in this thread. The mafioso's in question would have had to never spelled them incorrectly in all of the previous games. Also, writing style doesn't match the poor spelling. Hence the roll eyes smiley.

[Craterus]

Whoever is the detective should definitely have investigated Kommodus.

[Sir Moody]

i didnt spell check it ok

[Sasaki Kojiro]

i didnt spell check it ok

haha ok. So the kills were written by you then?

[Don Corleone]

Is "Strike For The South" a mystery player in this game?

[Don Corleone]

Sorry Strike, if you're peeking in here. Just a little humor.

Anyway, I'm not certain what to make of Kommodu's threat. Apparently the mafia took it seriously, assuming that it's not just part of a cover for Kommodus. I'm surprised, I really expected the mafia to actually kill him BECAUSE of it.

Him or Reenk. Reenk was practically insulting them. And he bascially said that if the mafia didn't kill Kommodus, then we'd know he was working with them. I don't buy that, and I find his ultimatum odd. He knew Kommodus wouldn't be killed, so he knew he already had a lynching victim lined up. How could he know that?

If I misread your post, Reenk, please, correct me. Otherwise...

Vote: Reenk

[Sir Moody]

yes and no sas the mafia wrote the base kill line and I edited it - its going to be a long game if you pick out all my spelling mistakes...

[Xiahou]

Hmmm, my guess would be someone who hasn't posted yet- not that it narrows it down by that much. Your typical rebel would be leery of drawing unwanted attention to themselves and would likely not participate in the discussion that took place before the first kills were even logged.

Of course, a more daring rebel might have waded into the discussion from the beginning- but I still feel confident that at least one rebel would be lurking thus far. Besides, lurkers give us nothing to go on- at least active posters give us a track record to look back on in later rounds.

[Ituralde]

I'm still not fully convinced by Kommodus maneuver and there seems to be no penalty for lynching him. His post was also suspicious as only a veteran player would attempt a stunt like that and hope to get away with it.

Fellow Senators,
It has come to my attention that Senator Kommodus has openly declared that he will collaborate with the Rebels, if they would spare his life. Such an act of cowardice is not worthy of a true Roman! The friend of my enemy is my enemy.
Unless he refutes his connections to the Rebels and gives us full support in the search for those miscreants amongst us, he leaves me no choice, but to cast my vote for him. I'm reluctant to lynch an experienced Senator like him, as he has proven a worthy aid in the past. However open collaboration with the enemy can not be tolerated. If the fear for his life was so dear and his findings so important to our cause, why not ask for protection from our Legate?
As a sign of my disapproval for Senator Kommodus behaviour, I cast my vote as follows:

Vote: Kommodus


As stated above, this vote is not set, but I would like to hear a little more about Kommodus motives and assurance that he will help the Senators in exchange for not lynching him.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Okay, let me first say that my attention will not be fully focused on this game for around a week. Dutch_guy can attest to this (I'm fighting a massive battle in Will of the Senate, you see). However, I will do the best that I can to watch the thread and give my input when I feel it is necessary.

First of all, I suggest that our Praetor investigate Csar. The sooner we know his identity, the better. He could be the town's (Senate's) key to winning the whole thing.

Finally, as before, I believe that Kommodus is innocent. These kills apparently only being a base confirms it, as I don't believe K can resist writing a good story.

Vote: Abstain

[Sir Moody]

Csar is the Consul - as stated in the rules in the first post he is always innocent and cannot vote

[AggonyDuck]

I don't think we should lynch Kommodus. I don't think a mafioso would dare to warrant such attention to himself at the start. Unless of course Kommodus possesses considerable testicular fortitude. So I'd suggest we keep him alive for now, but we should remain suspicious of him as we should remain of pretty much anyone.

I do not think that it is in our advantage to abstain now. Thus I will cast my vote on someone and I've decided to cast my vote on Craterus. He has an uncanny ability to survive far in to the game, without really much posting anything and remaining as a great unknown throughout the whole game.

Vote: Craterus

[Kommodus]

I knew my speech would cause my detractors to come out of the woodwork! There are many ways for a man to discern who his enemies are.

Apparently Reenk Roink has an interest in my demise. First he urges the rebels to kill me... then urges the senators to lynch me if they don't. Now how do you think the rebels would respond to this?

The rebels know that if I am killed, my vengeful spirit will dog their steps until the end of their short lives. This is the worst-case outcome for them; obviously they won't do it if they don't have to. It makes some sense for Reenk to challenge them to kill me, then, as that's the outcome the senate might hope for.

However, Reenk doesn't stop there. He then urges the senate to lynch me if the rebels let me live. That's precisely what the rebels are hoping for, as they know that my death at the hands of the mob rids them - permanently - of one of their most dangerous rivals. So it's hardly a surprise that I have lived through the night.

Reenk, please explain yourself, for I find your words unwelcome and suspicious.

Then we have newcomer Ituralde. Can his unenlightened accusation be attributed to ignorance? Let's see.

It has come to my attention that Senator Kommodus has openly declared that he will collaborate with the Rebels, if they would spare his life.

It would appear that he misuses the word "collaborate." The word collaborate implies cooperation, aid, assistance. I promised no such thing.

You see, even when not using my full analytical abilities, I remain one of the most dangerous foes of the rebels. I have many weapons at my disposal. I have only promised to withhold the use of my most dangerous weapons, which are formidable indeed, should the rebels spare my life.

And yet Ituralde has the nerve to accuse me of conspiracy with the rebels! My fellow senator, if true senator you be, I would have your head at this moment were it not for the respect I have for the democratic process!

With two strong suspects to choose from, I choose for now to vote: Ituralde. His mistaken move will only have the effect of serious harm to the senate. Let him explain himself!

[Kommodus]

Rereading the thread a bit more closely, I see my ultimatum has drawn criticism. Let me try to clear up a few points of misunderstanding.

1. It has been suggested that I promised to "not help" the senators if the rebels let me live. That was not what I promised - I will still use my analytical abilities. However, I have new, more deadly tools in development, which will not be used immediately as long as I live.

2. doc_bean has suggested that my words will serve only to confuse and draw attention away from the real guilty parties. I have a solution for this. Don't dwell on it. There is no hidden meaning in anything I've said - it's all the plain truth. Unless you feel you have reason to think otherwise, let it go at that and pursue other leads for now.

3. doc_bean further suggests that my ultimatum sets up a lose-lose situation for the senators. Properly understood, this is not the case. If the rebels kill me, the senate wins - every weapon in my arsenal is leveled at them. If the rebels and the senate let me live, the senate wins - I still expend considerable effort in my search for the guilty; just not quite what I would have otherwise. If the senate kills me, the senate loses, for they prove themselves unworthy and ungrateful for my help.

As I said before, don't waste too much effort thinking about me, for if you do I've failed in my intended purpose, which is to help the senate and to exceed my usual life expectancy. There are other, more worthy leads to follow up. For example, it's also important that we get the lurkers to post, lest they be allowed to fly under the radar.