A question about reforms and MICs

**Spoofa** · 12-14-2006, 04:40

well i did it the hard way and deleted my tier 5 MIC buildings and rebuilt them from scratch..... BIG time consumer......... But i hear theres a way by getting a tier 5 and then u have the options of rebuilding it or somthing i dont remember the exact details...

**blacksnail** · 12-14-2006, 06:59

Yes, you need to upgrade your factional MIC to receive the benefit of the Polybian reforms, and if you leave it as is you will still be able to build Camillan units from that MIC. If you are at MIC 5 already, you will need to rebuild that 5th level. If you are at a lower level, you will upgrade to the next highest. As a player you can choose to leave these buildings at Camillan throughout the Polybian era, but that's certainly more a gameplay decision than a historical approach. (You certainly aren't required to upgrade immediately; it's up to you when you do so.)

The Marian reforms are fundamentally different. Once they come into play you will no longer be able to build Polybian units (or Camillan, if you never upgraded). The Marian MICs will be dropped by script into the cities with Camillan or Polybian factional MICs, which you can then destroy for cash.

**MarcusAureliusAntoninus** · 12-14-2006, 10:03

Is the system of having to upgrade to the next level in order to get the new units the way it is going to stay? Not to be insulting or derogatory in any way, but it kind of seems stupid. Is this a work around to the CTD button/building thing?

**Foot** · 12-14-2006, 10:18

Originally Posted by MarcusAureliusAntoninus

Is the system of having to upgrade to the next level in order to get the new units the way it is going to stay? Not to be insulting or derogatory in any way, but it kind of seems stupid. Is this a work around to the CTD button/building thing?

Why is it stupid? Regardless its the only way we can do it.

Foot

**MarcusAureliusAntoninus** · 12-14-2006, 10:37

Originally Posted by Foot

Why is it stupid? Regardless its the only way we can do it.

Foot

No offence, I know that game/mod devolopers are like mother bears, and I don't want to make fun of you cubs.

But it just seems weird that I have to wait at least three years to build the new units, plus I can have both types of units being recruited at the same time, plus the AI is bound to be confused (not stop building Camilian), plus confusion and whining on the forums

, plus starting over the MICs if you maxed the size already.

My main problem is that you can still build Camilian after the reform, if you could build nothing and had to upgrade to build Polybian (ie something)... though then the AI would definately be confused.

Suggestion: The upper tier or two of Camilian MICs can't build anything new (to my knowledge), perhaps they could not even be avalible, so you can't max out your MIC prior to the reform.

**Foot** · 12-14-2006, 10:47

Remember that we are talking about a slow process of change, it would make sense to see polybian and camillian troops in the same army - probably. Thats how I justify it.

Foot

**Zaknafien** · 12-14-2006, 15:05

Exactly--this change is a process that is developed over time taking years to incorporate the new philosophy and tactics into the army.

Example, someone has an idea ---"hey, Senators, lets equip our soliders with mail hauberks instead of pectorales".

--Argument ensues taking months.

--Decision is reached, Senate says "ok, coolness."

--More months as mail hauberks are produced and distrubuted to newly trained soldiers, possibly on an experimental basis.

--Years later, all soldiers (not really) are theoretically equipped with the new armor.

So as you can see, its not a "presto! we now have polybian era triarii!"

:)

**blacksnail** · 12-14-2006, 19:33

Originally Posted by MarcusAureliusAntoninus

Suggestion: The upper tier or two of Camilian MICs can't build anything new (to my knowledge), perhaps they could not even be avalible, so you can't max out your MIC prior to the reform.

I believe units are slated for Camillan tier 4 and 5, if they aren't already there. If tier 5 Camillan remains empty, we'll likely remove that level from the complex.

**Geoffrey S** · 12-14-2006, 22:04

How does the AI handle the camillian-polybian reform?

**blacksnail** · 12-14-2006, 19:31

Originally Posted by MarcusAureliusAntoninus

Is the system of having to upgrade to the next level in order to get the new units the way it is going to stay? Not to be insulting or derogatory in any way, but it kind of seems stupid. Is this a work around to the CTD button/building thing?

It is either that or remove Polybian and Augustan reforms entirely, which we won't do.

Part of this is due to engine limitations for the number of buildings available. Of all the factions, the Romani are the most complex when it comes to reforms. The other part is that Camillan to Polybian is a relatively minor change, as is Marian to Augustan. However, Polybian to Marian is such a quantum leap and fundamental restructuring of the Romani army that we automate it.