Patch release date confirmed.

[Quillan]

I don't expect them to slaughter horses, but I do expect them to fight effectively. Even peasants would have caused more casualties than my VG unit did! I had a city fight in Jerusalem once, my dismounted chivalric knights against a unit of tabardariyya. Yes,I would expect the 700 florin unit to beat the just under 500 florin unit, but both units started at 90 men, and it was a countercharge situation. I had 75 men left, they routed with 30. Out of the 15 I lost, 10 were lost in the charge. I expect them to make a better show of the fight.

[RZST]

better yet, try this.

BYZ vs SCOT
Varangian Guard VS Border Guard (or whatever the cheapest scot horse it)

dont even charge, just sit there and accept the BYZ charge. watch the battle. see who wins.

the scots on my playtime only died during the initial charge, like 10 of em.

[Jagger]

The blog states that 2 hnded axemen are fixed....

"less devastating gunpowder units and last but not least, stronger 2-handed axe men and billmen."

http://www.totalwarblog.com/

So did anyone actually read the blog?

[Faenaris]

The blog states that 2 hnded axemen are fixed....

"less devastating gunpowder units and last but not least, stronger 2-handed axe men and billmen."

http://www.totalwarblog.com/

So did anyone actually read the blog?

Aye, they are fixed, but they were talking about update 2:

As a teaser for Update 2, we’re currently playing with some of the fixes and tweaks and have to say, you will absolutely love the more aggressive Scotland and Mongol campaign AI, more naval assaults, an even more consistent less powerful cavalry charge, less devastating gunpowder units and last but not least, stronger 2-handed axe men and billmen.

And with regard to the patch news:

[Joecartoon.com George Hemp Voice] Oooowwww, yeaaaaaaaah! Shame that the 2-handed fix isn't included, but I'll just adapt the animations myself until the next update.

[Jagger]

I guess I am the one that didn't read the blog....

I am using Lusted animation patch for the axemen/bills, etc. So not too big a deal for me.

[Faenaris]

I guess I am the one that didn't read the blog....

I am using Lusted animation patch for the axemen/bills, etc. So not too big a deal for me.

Hehe, no sweat, I had misread the blog too the first time. And I'm doing the same as you: using Lusted's Fix for the billmen/axemen.

[Bijo]

The blog states that 2 hnded axemen are fixed....

"less devastating gunpowder units and last but not least, stronger 2-handed axe men and billmen."

http://www.totalwarblog.com/

So did anyone actually read the blog?

I've read the blog and it doesn't say 2-handed axemen and billmen are fixed. "less devastating gunpowder units and last but not least, stronger 2-handed axe men and billmen." The only thing that it's saying is that 2-handed axemen and billmen are stronger. It's not the same as being fixed. Simple logic.

[Shadow_Wolf33]

booo @ gunpowder units being nerfed. Hopefully I'll be able to un-nerf them, because I like them actually being able to KILL something on the battlefield...heck, some I'd say could even stand to be improved. Mortars for one should be killing more than 1-2 guys when they land smack dab in the middle of a formation.

[Bob the Insane]

booo @ gunpowder units being nerfed. Hopefully I'll be able to un-nerf them, because I like them actually being able to KILL something on the battlefield...heck, some I'd say could even stand to be improved. Mortars for one should be killing more than 1-2 guys when they land smack dab in the middle of a formation.

Well update 1 has:

"-Fixed gunpowder units being stuck reforming"

Some maybe the gunpowder units will get extra uber after tomorrows update and they are already planning to tone them down again?? Just guessing..

[Bongaroo]

Agreed that the motor round should be explosive, scattering a dozen or so tightly packed troops into the air and possibly giving some shock to knock a larger ring of troops into disarray. would be an awesome sight.

[Barry Fitzgerald]

I think CA are getting carried away on their own PR stuff....

You will love...etc...

What I would love is this!

Proper AI that doesnt cheat...and has some sense.
A challenge in battles..(AI again)
Pick faction heir
Option to start campaign early, middle or late period..
Real years not turns..and option for slower paced games
Glorious achievements..bring em back
Regional units....we want them NOW!

I am hard to please...the only way it should be! lol

[Whacker]

booo @ gunpowder units being nerfed. Hopefully I'll be able to un-nerf them, because I like them actually being able to KILL something on the battlefield...heck, some I'd say could even stand to be improved. Mortars for one should be killing more than 1-2 guys when they land smack dab in the middle of a formation.

Aff Star Captain Wolf, I couldn't agree more. Later gunpowder units, while relatively inaccurate, caused a lot of damage whenever a shot managed to hit. If they're going to nerf the damage, they should at least increase the moral hit by a good margin to compensate.

RE: The two-hander discussion, stinks that it's not fixed, but at least we have a reasonably-well working temp fix thanks to some talented researchers. In fact, I would go as far as to say that if anything this just solidifies in my mind the need for a bug-fixer type effort for M2. Is player1 still around? We could use his mythical skills about now methinks.

Also, I'd like to reiterate Kraxter's idea about patching. Having a decent number of frequent patches is preferable, in our opinion at least, to a small number of large patches that are few and far between. Having to wait a few months or more at a go while sitting on some of the more noticable bugs really stinks, like the 2-handers. Given there's a fix, but invariably there's going to be some that won't have workarounds, and will annoy some of us more than others.

Cheers!

[Hochmeister]

What do you mean by lack of animation? When they face sword/spear units they fight ok.

Also, of course I cannot be sure that this is a "feature" or not. That is why I am missing the CA guys making a clear statement.
However, I think that we should be a bit more openminded trying to understand the whole system, instead of judging isolated issues based on our expectations.

I think you make a good point for traditional "axemen" who should be disadvantaged against cavalry but surely not the famous Billmen who afaik their weapon was designed to "hook" armoured Knights from their mounts??

[ScrapTower]

Aff Star Captain Wolf, I couldn't agree more. Later gunpowder units, while relatively inaccurate, caused a lot of damage whenever a shot managed to hit. If they're going to nerf the damage, they should at least increase the moral hit by a good margin to compensate.

I have said this more than once so please forgive me...

The first canon (bombards) were used in siege warfare no earlier than 1314, and the first muskets entered battle around 1550. Lances, pikes, and swords were still the weapons of choice at the beginning of the Thirty Years War... (1618).
Not to mention the first muskets were heavy, slow to reload and and could not be fired without a rest.

The effectivness of gunpowder units historically sucked untill the 1600's. IMO the gunpowder units detract from the medieval setting and tactics.

[Whacker]

Let me prefix this by stating that in principle, I actually agree with your opinion on gunpowder. Some people like it, others think it's ok, others don't want to deal with it. I'm somewhere in the middle, it's ok to dabble with, but I prefer traditional non-gunpowder battles and combat by a good margin.

That said....

and the first muskets entered battle around 1550.

Muskets yes, but arquebusiers and the older "gonnes" were all in use in some shape or form since 1300 or so.

Not to mention the first muskets were heavy, slow to reload and and could not be fired without a rest.

IIRC this is not true. Earlier firearms predating the musket were indeed large and required stands, but the first true muskets were used and fired without stands. I also think that most later Arquebusier-type firearms did not require stands.

The effectiveness of gunpowder units historically sucked untill the 1600's.

That's somewhat subjective, but towards the latter years not true. Yes it's true that earlier firearms were incredibly inaccurate and relatively weak, hence the practice of selling plated armor that was "pre-dented" from firing test shots at it. The later 15th century firearms though had improved to the point where enough energy was imparted to the shot that it could penetrate armor quite readily. Not to mention it still scared the crap out of men and horses even though it's use was common. Accuracy though, was another thing entirely.

IMO the gunpowder units detract from the medieval setting and tactics.

I somewhat agree and disagree, as stated above. One things for sure, they definitely aren't going to get dropped, if anything I imagine that our next expansion is probably going to be more forward in time, towards the Renaissance.



Sapster, if you read this, what are you plans for handling the bug list? Are you going to just strike-through any bugs/items fixed and what patch they were fixed in (and that we verified)? Whichever way you choose, I would offer that leaving things in the list is a good thing, as RTW showed sometimes things came back to haunt us even after they were "resolved".

Cheers!

[Lorenzo_H]

woooooo patch!

[Biggus Diccus]

CA decided that cavs should be their bane. It is fine with me. Perhaps CA overemphasised this weakness, and definitely left it unexplained. I am still waiting for someone from CA to show up and state it clearly that it is not a bug (or state it clearly if it is indeed a bug).

CA didn't state it clearly because they are too embarrassed that this error made it to the final game

I'll be using Lusteds mod till next update, so no sweat for me. Lets just hope we don't need it after update 2....

[Oldgamer]

Concerning the 2-handed problem ...

I'm using Lusted's mod, and last night, I saw something I've never seen before. In an action against rebel armored sergeants in Bruge, I closed in on a fight between one of my billmen and the enemy. After a long exchange of blows, the billman got in a blow against the rebel's chest, who then closed his stance into a defensive posture. Then, the billman reached down and hooked the man's legs, and pulled them out from under him. Naturally, he fell on his back. In another second, the billman and one of his mates hacked and stabbed him, respectively.

Until CA fixes this problem, Lusted has a temporary solution!

[Cheetah]

THEY DONT MOVE AFTER A CHARGE!
THEY DONT MOVE AFTER A CHARGE!
THEY DONT MOVE AFTER A CHARGE!
THEY DONT MOVE AFTER A CHARGE!
THEY DONT MOVE AFTER A CHARGE!

that clear enough for ya?

Well, they do move but they dont kill. Have you asked yourself the question that why they dont kill?

[Cheetah]

I don't expect them to slaughter horses, but I do expect them to fight effectively.

Effectively against whom? The very idea of the RPS system is that a given unit type is effective vs some yet ineffective vs others. It seems that axemen are not supposed to do well vs horses, CA might have overdone this effect but it might be more of a balancing issue then a bug (though it is definitely counter intuitive in case of billmen, as they were anti-cav units in MTW).

[BigTex]

Effectively against whom? The very idea of the RPS system is that a given unit type is effective vs some yet ineffective vs others. It seems that axemen are not supposed to do well vs horses, CA might have overdone this effect but it might be more of a balancing issue then a bug (though it is definitely counter intuitive in case of billmen, as they were anti-cav units in MTW).

Sure they shouldnt dominate cavalry. But they should at least be able to attack them. Currently in the state the animation is in the axemen billmen n other's can't even swing at a cavalry unit, let alone kill it.

Polaxemen and billmen on the other hand should be capable of decimating standing cavalry units after a charge.

[screwtype]

...and the first muskets entered battle around 1550. Lances, pikes, and swords were still the weapons of choice at the beginning of the Thirty Years War... (1618).
Not to mention the first muskets were heavy, slow to reload and and could not be fired without a rest.

The effectivness of gunpowder units historically sucked untill the 1600's. IMO the gunpowder units detract from the medieval setting and tactics.

How about that. That is just how Imperialism II plays!

The more I've found out about that game, the more I admire the guys who put it together.