Crusade Strategies and Tips

[Bongaroo]

I've seen a lot of people talk about different aspects of a crusade but flipping back a few pages I don't see any posts specific to successful crusade strategy so lets use this thread to build up a good set of tips and strategies for taking the Holy Lands.

I was going to say that I'll add good points developed in this thread to this post but we'll have to wait till I get bumped up from junior member for that or perhaps ask a mod to help out a bit.

Crusades that do me the most good are the ones I've prepared for well in advance so I'll start out with some pre-crusading tips.

I. Pre-Crusade

1. Send Priests well ahead of the crusade.

Having a good catholic base in a province will be a big boost to your public order. In MTW, I distinctly remember seeing plenty of priests and bishops converting down in the holy lands but now that agents can't zip across the map from port to port the AI doesn't seem to send its priests much, if at all. By the time crusades are being called the holy lands are firmly muslim. Walking the priests to the holy lands would take way too long for most catholic factions so sailing them in is the best bet.

2. Try to be the one calling the crusade.

Hopefully if you were able to get some priests to the holy land before a crusade is called you will have an idea of what you'll be up against in the different provinces. Being the one to choose the target can also help avoid having to declare war on the egyptians or turks. A few times I've been lucky to notice a holy land province thats gone rebel and call a crusade on it. Besides knowing what to expect at your target your priests will have a nice catholic welcoming party when you take it.

3. Send a spy and assassin with the priests.

Enemy spies in your newly conquered town cause lots of unrest forcing you to leave most if not all of your troops garrisoned, limiting your defensive choices and ability. While you could train them once you've taken the province I find that using your training slots on troops will be more important; besides having to wait a couple turns to train anything anyways. The assassin isn't vital but the spy is a must take. Having them on location may even get the gates opened for your crusaders, saving on seige time.


Thats it for right now, feel free to add your tips and thoughts! I was thinking of going over some tips on what troops make a good start next and after that getting some tips posted on getting your crusade to target quickly and avoiding desertion. Lastly, maybe some tips and strategies on what to do with your newly captured province to keep it and use it to stage further crusades or conquests.

[RZST]

never...NEVER EVER go the opposite route whenever you join a crusade.

as scotland i joined a crusade for the hold land of jerusalem, i put it some of my best troops (HIGHLANDERS! WAAAAA) and decided to transport em by sea instead of land. So after i loaded them on my boats i decided to head south-southwest passing france and then going to through the iberian straight. Atleast that was the plan, the next turn i found my troops started to "desert" how then can desert in the sea is beyond me. Needless to say i learned my lesson =P

[BuckNekkid]

I agree to all that and have three things to add.

1. If you can call the Crusade, call it on a castle instead of a town (if possible). You'll need the good troops later.

2. Send priests to Cyprus and get a good Catholic base started. Then, if you don't mind killing a few Byzantines, take Cyprus and turn it into a castle. Now you have a perfect springboard for Crusading and reinforcing.

3. If possible, go by sea. That way, if someone else beats you to the target, you don't have to troop an army back across other kingdoms and ruin your relations with them.

[phred]

If you're marching to the holy land, make sure you send a spy to scout ahead of your army to prevent the army from losing all it's movement points when it gets too close to a city/castle.

On that same note don't give your crusade several turns of movement orders, because it will inevitable walk directly up to a city and lose all movement points for that turn.

Also, if you do get stuck next to a city, make sure you move your crusade away from it one square at a time. If you give your crusade a long movement order it might just get stuck next to the same city again.

That's all I can think of.

[katank]

If you can be guaranteed to take the crusade target, get every eligible stack to join the crusade. You can hire tons of crusader mercs which are dirt cheap and you also get experience bonus for all the units.

[Bongaroo]

If you can be guaranteed to take the crusade target, get every eligible stack to join the crusade. You can hire tons of crusader mercs which are dirt cheap and you also get experience bonus for all the units.

I've found that a general, a few heavy cav, and missle troops are the best to start on a crusade, you get access to tons of cheap pilgrims, cheap heavy cav, and cheap spearmen once you get started to fill out the stack. The crusader mercs just seem to be lacking in the ranged category. Once you get to the holy lands you can hire those HA mercs too don't forget.

This is one of the things I wanted to discuss most next, as there seems to be lots of differing opinions.

[Quillan]

A friend of mine has swarm crusades. He forms a crusade army mostly generals, sometimes as many as 8. Join the crusade, hire mercs to bulk out, hire or get on ships, and sail to the holy land. Drop off one general on land, say about where Cyrene was in RTW. Hire mercs with him to form a new crusade army heading for Egypt. Drop off another general by Adana, another by Antioch, another by Gaza, another by Acre, hire mercs with all of them. Send the rest to Jerusalem. Take all of it with crusade armies. Do the actual crusade target last.

[dismal]

For long trip crusades:

- Usually send the minimum size army (8) with my worst troops and hire along the way
- If I arrive too late, I leave the army in the holy land for the next crusade. Try to have them support their upkeep by sacking and abandoning nearby cities such as Baghdad.

For short trip crusades (e.g. going to Antioch when you hold Jerusalem/Acre) :

- I still tend to join the crusade with a minimum army of weak units (the exception would be if I thought I could end the crusade quickly, but often there seem to be lots of stacks of Mongols and/or Timurids about)
- Let the weak units desert if need be. I have ended up with a crusading army that is just one general hanging around waiting.
- When the opportunity presents itself (e.g., all the Mongol/Timmy stacks move far enough away to allow a clear path), stuff the army full of good units and take the city in the same turn.

[katank]

I'm saying that since multiple stacks can join the crusade, you can get huge armies for practically nothing by abusing that fact. When I'm simply one turn away from taking the target, I turn all my armies into crusade armies if possible and hire tons of mercs. This include my armies in lands of my Catholic enemies.

For example, in my French game, now I have 5 former crusader stacks filled to the brim with crusader seargents/knights/fanatics stomping through central Europe killing off the other Catholic factions with overwhelming force.

[PseRamesses]

Need more time to prepare for the crusades? Reload the game. It will take some 10-20 turns before another is called. I cheat this way when I play the English/ Scots since I find the desertion at sea-feature quite unrealistic. When a crusade is called I exit and reload, send a ship to Porugal/ Gibraltar then I call the crusade.
If things start out peacefully as the English I usually send a half stack before rime and take Rhodos then strike from there when the crusade is called.

[Beren Son Of Barahi]

i like to take generals that have just come of age, give them a half stack of peasants. get them over to the hold lands fill the stack with mercs, then put the peasants in a second stack or use them to hold settlements once you take them.

[KARTLOS]

a general tip as a few people have mentioned is to turn all your armies into crusading armies just before you take the crusade target to take advantage of the xp points and cheap mercs.

my other tip is to try is to be opportunsitic and take out as many cities as possible on your way to the target. for example if your target is jerusalem, if you come from the north west you can move through the byzantine empire taking out thessalonica, corinth, constantinople, nicaea, and then on thru the turkish empire taking iconium, adana and then on thru the middle east taking antioch and acre before you reach jerusalem.
if you were moving along the south coast you can hit egypt on your way take alexandria, cairo and gaza.

If you have more than one crusade stack moving through the same area you will find it easier to take every city without to many deviations. eg if you are hitting the byzantines one stack might take byzantium move on to nicaea and from there to iconium. the other might hit thesalonica then corinth then smryna and meet up at iconium.

the delay in your journey caused by seiging can cause you to lose a few units to desertion, but you can just recruit more and the money you get from sacking those cities will certainly come in handy.

to garrison the cities you take along the way use the cheap troops =pilgrims, crusade armies dont really seem to desert if left behind in city (though they do if left behind in the field). another option is to move your general out of the crusade stack recruit some mercs, send them into the city, then reuinte the general with his crusade army and rejoin the crusade. constaninople will be one of the hardest cities to garrison becasue of its size - it is worth considering massacring the inhabitants, though i tend not to as i think its size is part of the prize- for most factions it will be your most advanced city.

unless you are prepared to leave a full stack in the cities, then i would suggest massacring the muslim cities you take - public order will be no problem.

bring as many generals as you can - and recruit as many mercs as you can, the extra generals allow you to bud offf new crusade stacks when required.

try and disband the pilgrims as soon as possible post crusade - they are relatively expensive upkeep for such shite troops. I even disband some during a crusade if they take up space in a stack for a better cusade merc.

my final tip - i always crusade earlly, it lets you gain riches and a big empire beyond the natural constraints of catholic europe. I never bother with sending priests or spys first and frankly i wouldnt have time.

[sapi]

As has been said, crusade early, but remember that the holy land isn't your only target.

I favour striking for the caiptal of an excommunicated faction, using the crusade to boost your general's skills and use him to fight in europe.

I've ended up with a 10 star, 8 chivilary general who's only 30 years old....but refuses to turn up as faction heir ;(

[Kobal2fr]

I agree to all that and have three things to add.

1. If you can call the Crusade, call it on a castle instead of a town (if possible). You'll need the good troops later.

2. Send priests to Cyprus and get a good Catholic base started. Then, if you don't mind killing a few Byzantines, take Cyprus and turn it into a castle. Now you have a perfect springboard for Crusading and reinforcing.

3. If possible, go by sea. That way, if someone else beats you to the target, you don't have to troop an army back across other kingdoms and ruin your relations with them.

I have found that Rhodes is also very good for that purpose if you can afford to wait while its low starting population devellops a bit.

The AI will never take it so it'll always be right there waiting for you, it's Rebel owned so you won't have to face the wrath of Byzantium (or rather, the wrath of Byzantium-and-the-ten-factions-allied-with-it...) in taking it, and it's very lightly defended so you don't even need that strong a force to make it yours.

[Bongaroo]

Good tips everyone, keep them coming and try to post in an easy to read and copy format so I can easily include it in my top post! (i'm not into claiming others ideas as my own, so i'll be sure to include sources)

Turning all your armies into crusaders as you reach the target would be extremely powerful, but I find it rather gamey and probably not intended by the designers, might explain why CA made it so easy for the desertions to get out of hand. I think we should stick to focusing on the crusade itself, the troops doing the dirty work. We could add another section a little seperate with tips and strategies for what to do back in the home lands while out crusading.

Using Cyprus or Rhodes as a spring board sounds like a great idea. I would warn that if the mongels and timurids settle in or near the holy lands they usually build a quite a few vessels, so watch out late game if your depending on ferrying your troops from the islands.

Also good points about the crusades against excommunicated factions!

I haven't had much luck getting experienced crusaders back to Europe after a crusade as I hear many mention. Is it worth the time of a slow trip back? Like many mention, having a large army in the rich middle-east is a great money generator. Isn't this a better use of these troops? thoughts?

[Bob the Insane]

Crusade Strategies and Tips

NEVER take just one boat when sailing your crusaders down the Med!!

Poor King Rufus...

[katank]

If you are crusading to Holy Lands, it's definitely worth it to use it to crush the Egyptians and take their cities. Those cities are amazingly rich. Walking the veteran army back would be too much of a pain, not to mention defeatist.

Keeping the Holy Land also allows you to confront the Mongols early on. While this may sound insane, the AI is very bad at containing the Mongol threat. If allowed to carve out an empire, the Mongols will really get out of hand. Better to bleed them at your walls and river crossings, thus taking them apart piece by piece yourself.

[Slaists]

Main tip: try to be on the good books with the Pope (being allied with him, and 100 florins every other turn or so will do the trick) and be THE ONE calling the crusades... For one, that way you can target other targets than the wholy land, which is the primary interest for the Pope. Also, you can target castles instead of huge cities in far-away lands and... you can call a crusade when You are ready (for example, have a few young generals who need "crusading experience).

On a side note: calling everyone to join crusade the turn before the target is taken feels like quite an exploit to me. Takes the fun away... The AI is handicapped the way it is anyway, no need to stomp it with hordes of cheap crusader mercs.

[Bongaroo]

Main tip: try to be on the good books with the Pope (being allied with him, and 100 florins every other turn or so will do the trick) and be THE ONE calling the crusades... For one, that way you can target other targets than the wholy land, which is the primary interest for the Pope. Also, you can target castles instead of huge cities in far-away lands and... you can call a crusade when You are ready (for example, have a few young generals who need "crusading experience).

On a side note: calling everyone to join crusade the turn before the target is taken feels like quite an exploit to me. Takes the fun away... The AI is handicapped the way it is anyway, no need to stomp it with hordes of cheap crusader mercs.

High papal relations is definetly a good idea for those thinking of crusading and will smooth the rest of your campaign as well.

Oh, and i agree about your side note wholeheartedly. I'm sure if I try it I could conquer most of Europe in a few turns, especially later in the campaign. No challenge involved and I'm sure the AI isn't exploiting it that way which makes it a huge advantage.

[Snoil The Mighty]

In my currently very successful Venice campaign, I've used crusades against excommed Catholic factions as much as possible. One of the few ways to gain those needed HRE/Milan/Sicily regions without upsetting the Bishop of Rome. In fact, one of the nice side effects was placing a ship next his holiness' fleet while he was my ally, right where Sicily would attack me. The Pope was at war with Sicily until their extinction because of that one attack, which allowed me to get two more crusades in on them, with all the corresponding benefits to troop exp and a very good general

[KARTLOS]

on the subject of taking out excomunicated factions, playing as sicily on h/h i got the pope to call a crusade on hre after the got excomunicated. I was able to destroy the entire faction with my crusade.

they key when you are taking on an excomunicated faction is to try and kill thier king last - after the king is dead the faction may get reconciled and the crusade is over.

[PureFodder]

My best tip for Crusades is not to be the target of it.

It's a royal pain.

[Whoz'onE]

Main tip: try to be on the good books with the Pope (being allied with him, and 100 florins every other turn or so will do the trick) and be THE ONE calling the crusades... For one, that way you can target other targets than the holy land, which is the primary interest for the Pope.

I agree with this too. In my current campaign as England I have maintained Perfect relations with the Papal States since I was able to get a diplomat to Rome.

I had just taken Paris/Rheims/Bruges/Antwerp when the HRE was excomm'ed, for reasons unknown. I had 4 Generals in northern Europe and 2 more in York. I called a Crusade against Frankfurt and my proposal was accepted. I then created three Crusade armies of decent units, added a few Crusader mercs, and all three headed toward the doomed city. All three of my Crusading armies arrived within two turns. The next turn, I was able to merge the 6 Generals into a single army, with a remaining group of reinforcements. The Generals' army attacked, the reinforcements arrived, my spies opened the gates, and I took the city for minimal losses. The lead General (my Faction Heir) received the Grand Crusader trait (+3 Chiv, etc) and the other 5 received Great Crusader (+2 Chiv, etc) and all 6 received the two Knight retainers. Some also received misc. other traits/retainers as a result of the crusade (Peter the Hermit, another Knight retainer, a Merc retainer, + Chiv traits). All my key Generals are now around +5/6 Command, +8/9/10 Chiv and varying levels of Piety (except my King who abstained from the Crusade due to his +10 Dread). And it's only turn 35.

The key message is to take as many Generals on your crusades as possible. As all my armies actually reached the target, I don't think this is the same as the exploit of creating new Crusade armies just prior to taking the target.

[sapi]

My best tip for Crusades is not to be the target of it.

It's a royal pain.

Seconded - defending Constantinople against 5 full crusader stacks as the egyptians ain't fun :P

[Bongaroo]

Agreed. My current campaign is the Turks and even though only 2 nations attacked me in the Crusade on Antioch the Spainish stack ripped through a lot of my forces before my Sultan could bring in my experienced stack of Siphais and JHI and finally rout them.

Crusades are tough to fight, I think I'll try to bring overwhelming force to bear on each as they approach. Best way I've been able to deal with them. If two or three full stacks of crusaders are already at your doorstep your in for a hurting.

At least the AI was nice enough to eventually offer ceasefires that I was able to profit off of. Big wars are raging in Europe and the Mongels just appeared. Its a crazy campaign!

[Ektelion]

Whenever possible I pick my heir apparent, especially if he is young to lead the crusade, joined by some young generals for leadership in the newly conquered lands.
I Always put 4-5 priests, 2 spies and an assasin or two along, as I am not into sailing needed agents all the way long again if the conquered area is underdeveloped, especially if I play england (in which case also try to walk by land the first part of the trip, you dont want to lose 80% of your men).

[The Teacher]

from my own experience of the english;

1) Try call the crusade from the Pope.

2) If you have to join one only have the minimum of units with good quality troops. Mercs can be hired when you are there.

3) Walk down through France and across to Italy and get a large Merc fleet from Venice region.

4) Hit the target, sack it destroy the buildings and give the region to the Pope.

5) Then sack all the citys and forts etc around. Destroy the buildings and moving onto the next city, dont leave any troops behind as you want it to rebel.

6) Keep moving on in a loop, sack the citys and move on then you can sack them again when they rebel.

:)

[Fisherking]

Things to think of when going on crusade:

Are there rebel settlements along the way? You can take and garrison these without the units left behind deserting! Then hire more to fill your stack!

Is there a non Christian faction (or excommunicated faction) you can beat up as you go?
You can linger in one spot longer if you are besieging an enemy with out fear of desertion.
In a Spanish Campaign I marched through the Moors to get to the Holey Lands. In Tunisia I switched to boats and also took Rhodes along the way. Then always take Acer no matter what the target is! It is usually worth it as it is a castle and doesn't usually rebel leaving you high and dry with no place to go.

Leave your dirt units like pilgrims etc. for garrisons until you build something good. You can also start new stacks while the crusade is going on…once you have joined in the initial time period. A second stack can clean up the rebel cities and excommunicated towns nearer home while the first stack moves to the target.

When moving by sea (especially from Scotland or England) click on your ships to see if there is any movement points left once the army can't unload any more…ships also get a movement bonus for being in a crusade…make sure you use it or have unload and siege something on the way…this usually ends the desertion problems you have going around Iberia. But if you sail to Bordeaux and take it then march to the Med and hire boats! Sailing due west will cause the problem where sailing southwest with the extra moves doesn't hurt so much.

If you start more than one stack remember that only one fleet will get the crusade bonuses the second will not show as a crusade fleet at all and you will have desertion problems.

Of course you know that winning the city you crusade to is only the beginning of your problems.

[Mega Dux Bob]

Worth noting that if you make a habit of crusading by sea the Egyptians get really enthusiastic about raising fleets. The first crusade takes them by surprise but by the second one they tend to have a serious navy going.

[RunYaThru]

How do you keep you troops from deserting on the boats as you transport them? I lost a HUGE army in about 5 turns while they were sailing to the Crusades.