I need a better Venetian stack

**Shahed** · 12-14-2006, 21:49

Feudal knights mounted or dismounted ?

**Amon_Zeth** · 12-14-2006, 21:58

Originally Posted by Sinan

Feudal knights mounted or dismounted ?

Mounted, otherwise I'd have no cavalry other than my general.

**Wizzie** · 12-14-2006, 22:19

Hmm, 6 Crossbowmen seems a bit excessive. I would tone it down to three or four, and add in some Feudal Foot Knights in their place The Venetian Infantry are great but I find the foot knights even better. Also, 7 heavy cavalry is great, but I usually try to include some light cavalry (mounted sergeants; broken lances are heavy, arn't they?) in my stacks for performing lightning-flanking manouvres or chasing down routers.

**Musashi** · 12-14-2006, 22:42

I typically use my general, 4 VHI, 4 Italian Spear Militia (Or pike militia), 6 Pavise Crossbowmen, two units of cavalry, and three artillery pieces.

**Jagger** · 12-14-2006, 22:53

If I expect strong enemy heavy cavalry, I definitely want some Venetian heavy infantry to back up my infantry line rather than dismounted knights.

**Amon_Zeth** · 12-14-2006, 22:55

How effective are pike militia/spear militia, anyway? I've heard some people complain about spear units getting destroyed by cavalry charges.

**Handel** · 12-14-2006, 22:59

There is no such thing as "better stack". One stack is better for defence, quite other for attack, third against horse archers, forth for emergency help...

**rios** · 12-15-2006, 02:59

Originally Posted by Handel

There is no such thing as "better stack". One stack is better for defence, quite other for attack, third against horse archers, forth for emergency help...

since venitian can retrain cav militia and pavs in all large+ cities I generally use my defensive armies against horse archers. Cheap units to burn. Once they are experienced it's not that bad.

**Musashi** · 12-14-2006, 23:04

Originally Posted by Amon_Zeth

How effective are pike militia/spear militia, anyway? I've heard some people complain about spear units getting destroyed by cavalry charges.

Pikes and spears survive cav charges better than non-spear units. Italian Spear Militia can hold cavalry much longer than VHI, but VHI will do more damage to the cav unit.

**Jagger** · 12-14-2006, 23:16

I will usually have a front line of pikes or spears if the enemy has significant cavalry. If the enemy has primarily heavy cavalry, pikes are best with their shield wall. If primarily light cavalry, the spear schiltron is best as it doesn't have flanks. Pikes hit on the flanks are massacred. Often it is best to anchor the flanks of your front line with spear schiltrons rather than pikes regardless of what type of cavalry you are facing.

I will back up my front line with a mix of Venetian heavy infantry and/or dismounted feudal knights. The heavy infantry can strike back against any cavalry charge against the front line and the dismounted knights can counter against infantry attack.

Unfortunately, I have found the Venetian archers almost useless. With their armor and bows, initially I felt they would be ideal against eastern armies with their light cavalry and bowmen. Arrows would work perfectly fine against the low armor of eastern armies and the heavy armor of the Venetian archers would protect them against enemy bows. However, I have found the eastern armies use flame arrows to negate the armor advantage. My Venetian archers don't last long against the massed flame arrow attacks of the eastern armies. So IMO, the heavy armor of the Venetian archers provides very little advantage to compensate for their high cost. I have stopped using them as pavise crossbows have far better surviveability at lower costs.