Two Handed Weaponry frustrations

[Gith]

I know this has come up a few times, but I just had my first experience with it and it was extremely frustrating. Playing as Portugal I assaulted Genoa thanks to a spy opening the gates. Seeing that it was only a general guarding the city, I sent two units of Portuguese Dismounted Knights (96) straight up the middle and 1 around the back streets to the center to attack from behind. The General charged before my flanking unit could get there. The charge killed maybe 10-12, a pretty acceptable number in my book and then the melee ensued. My flanking unit eventually came around and helped out. In the end I lost 140 Portuguese Dismounted Knights, who killed 6 of the general's bodyguard. This is absurd. I read the patchnotes, didn't see any mention of this... is it due to the fact that the polearm attacks so slow that it is constantly interrupted and never gets an attack off? Has there been any mention of fixing this?

Right now it just seems like they're a useless unit, and I've heard the same things about the Varangian

Looks like its back to using only dismounted feudal knights

[ScrapTower]

I know this has come up a few times, but I just had my first experience with it and it was extremely frustrating. Playing as Portugal I assaulted Genoa thanks to a spy opening the gates. Seeing that it was only a general guarding the city, I sent two units of Portuguese Dismounted Knights (96) straight up the middle and 1 around the back streets to the center to attack from behind. The General charged before my flanking unit could get there. The charge killed maybe 10-12, a pretty acceptable number in my book and then the melee ensued. My flanking unit eventually came around and helped out. In the end I lost 140 Portuguese Dismounted Knights, who killed 6 of the general's bodyguard. This is absurd. I read the patchnotes, didn't see any mention of this... is it due to the fact that the polearm attacks so slow that it is constantly interrupted and never gets an attack off? Has there been any mention of fixing this?

Right now it just seems like they're a useless unit, and I've heard the same things about the Varangian

Looks like its back to using only dismounted feudal knights

Patch II will address this, in the mean time Lusteds mods provide a good fix.

[Husar]

I never had a problem like this, my forlorn hope annihilated an enemy general within seconds once. Took them a bit for the rest of the bodyguards, but they won without any help. My Zweihänder also work nicely and attack frequently. Tried some billmen in custom battle and they also seemed to work fine. Sometimes i wouldn't be surprised if the copy protection used is responsible for some of the faults, had to get a new DVD drive to be able to install the game, there may be some occassions where everything seems fine but the drive still made an error while copying the files. I had similar things happen with gothic 3 where the UI would be screwed but I got no error message.

[Gith]

Thanks for directing me to the fixes


Yea oddly enough I've never had this problem with Forlorn Hope, Zweihanders, or Gothic Foot Knights, just Portuguese and English foot knights, and like I said (I think it was under the 'Why Jannisary Heavy Infantry Murder Everything' thread) the Varangians as well.

I suffered the same fate when charging into a unit of pavise crossbow militia... on the charge I killed quite a few, but as melee went on they started wiping me out. Am I wrong to expect my crack foot knights to steamroll crossbowmen?

[Musashi]

Two handed sword units aren't bugged, only two handed axe and funky polearm units.

[Doug-Thompson]

Two handed sword units aren't bugged, only two handed axe and funky polearm units.

And religious fanatics, both the Crusade and Jihad units.

[Musashi]

That's because they use the 2H Axe animation with their clubs.

[BigTex]

I think it was under the 'Why Jannisary Heavy Infantry Murder Everything' thread

It's under the secrets of jannisary heavy infantry https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=74127. Contain's everything you need to know about 2hd infantry.

I never had a problem like this, my forlorn hope annihilated an enemy general within seconds once. Took them a bit for the rest of the bodyguards, but they won without any help. My Zweihänder also work nicely and attack frequently. Tried some billmen in custom battle and they also seemed to work fine.

2hd swordsmen arent bugged. It's the 2hd axes, polaxes, clubs and bills that are. Question, did you try the billmen against cavalry? Also how many times did the cavalry retreat? And how long did the charge last for the billmen? Since everyone is having the problem with the animation, and since CA seemed to have done a split second animation change before releasing it, I'd bet the house it isnt the copyright protection software.

[Musashi]

I'd bet the house it isnt the copyright protection software.

Although it certainly wouldn't be the first time anti-copy software has caused in game problems...

[BigTex]

Although it certainly wouldn't be the first time anti-copy software has caused in game problems...

It can cause problems, but since there's an actual difference in the gold demo animation and this one, that wouldnt be the problem.

[Mr Frost]

And religious fanatics, both the Crusade and Jihad units.

How so ?
The one time I've opted to use them for other than a garrison force they performed supprisingly well . It was my seige assault of Antioch . there were only two Saracen Infantry units {full , I only waited one turn to build Towers , ladders and a Ram} guarding the city and I didn't want to lose any of my real combat troops so I put some of my force facing on one side gate with the two Religous fanatics I had hired manning towers .
I had hoped the AI would leave one unit in the "Town" Square {the name tickles me when it is in a titanic city} and the second would take the bait and face the Flanking force when it advanced . They did so whilst they fought my Fanatics , I took the Front gate and entered the city in force and rushed to the square with dismounted Crusader Knights in the Van and Mounted ones Flanking as I expected the Fanatics to lose their fight {such low defense and the defenders bonus against them} and wanted to hit the Saracens as hard as possible to break them fast {remember , I didn't want to lose good troops} .
Well I needn't have worried , the Fanatics destroyed the unit on the walls then as the second unit attacked them in their pursuit of the survivors they broke it too and had about half their number left .
Not bad given I had though they were just throw-away fodder troops .




Edit : I should add , for Religous fanatics , the slowness of attacks and inpotance against cavalry actually makes sense , I still think they performed well in custom battles and Campaign given what sort of troops they represent .

[KARTLOS]

i would suggest following musahi's aproach outlined in the jhi thread mentioned above.

replace the animation of polearm units with the milita halberd animation and two handed axe untis with the jhi animation.

im not comfortable with lusteds fix as he changes alot of variablesto try and balance things and i think its too much.

[AussieGiant]

Just a clarification question.

Is the 2handed bug for DEK, Billmen etc etc, JUST, against mounted units or both mounted units and foot units?

Do Billmen and DEK engage other foot units without issues?

[BigTex]

Just a clarification question.

Is the 2handed bug for DEK, Billmen etc etc, JUST, against mounted units or both mounted units and foot units?

Do Billmen and DEK engage other foot units without issues?

Just against cavalry, they do fine against footunits.

[AussieGiant]

Thanks Big T!!

[Cesare diBorja]

Also, where are the French Longswordsmen or the Landesckhnechten; zweihanders, halberiers, handgonnemenschen and hakkebuttesmenschen. Not just pikemen? Milanese or mercenary two-handers?

[RTKMercurius]

Will be nice when they fix this bug so we can see how the units are supposed to play... esp. vrs cav...

[Dan.o6]

I think I'm just going to mod this myself, seems easier than using Lusted's mod which fixes a lot more things than I find nessessary. I'll just replace the animations and see how it runs. No stats editing.

[zulukiller]

Just against cavalry, they do fine against footunits.

I actually watched a battle yesterday upclose with DEK (full armour & swordsmith upgrade) V Mongolian heavey archers in meele and the DEK got hammered they wouldnt attack the mongolians just push them with the bottom of there poleaxes. In the end the whole unit of 120 DEK was whipped out and the Mogolian heavey archers only lost 10 to 20 men so i sent over a unit of armoured swordsmen and they chopped up the mongolians easilly with the added pain of having now another unit of Mongolian heavey infantry pelting them with arrows. So id say yes the DEK are useless against more than just cavalry maybe some infantry there no good against aswell.

[Quillan]

That's not quite the same problem as the big bug, but that's the experience I've had with Varangian Guard (from using them) and Tabardariyya (from fighting against them). Normal melee infantry attacks a lot faster than the 2h axes do, and many times I've seen a sword blow stagger an axeman who didn't attack while recovering. The 2h axemen will carve through most militia units, and do really well when they charge an already engaged infantry unit in the flank, but they don't seem to do well in straight 1 on 1 fights.

[zulukiller]

That's not quite the same problem as the big bug, but that's the experience I've had with Varangian Guard (from using them) and Tabardariyya (from fighting against them). Normal melee infantry attacks a lot faster than the 2h axes do, and many times I've seen a sword blow stagger an axeman who didn't attack while recovering. The 2h axemen will carve through most militia units, and do really well when they charge an already engaged infantry unit in the flank, but they don't seem to do well in straight 1 on 1 fights.

Thats a bad problem though isnt it considering the DEK are Englands heavy hitters.