Most powerful faction...

**PaulTa** · 12-12-2006, 03:40

I'd have to give my vote to Russia.

Infantry- Dismounted Boyar Sons and Bedirche Axemen. Dismounted Boyar Sons can whip a unit of feudal foot knights in melee, and also make a nice flanking unit because of their AP ability. The real king of AP and flanking is Bedirche axemen, who are better than Norse Axemen because of their cheap as dirt cost (380 florins).

Archers- You have to hold out until fortress, but then you get probably one of the best ranged infantry units, the dismounted Dvor. These guys have long range, good armor, and a decent melee attack. I'd pit Dismounted Dvor against any unit of infantry, and I consider them a must for mid to late game russian armies.

Cavalry- The real strength of the Russian cavalry isn't in catholic style heavy hitters, but in horse archers like Cossacks. You get a fast cavalry that fires arrows, can sweep up routers, and also chase down enemy light infantry (archers, crossbowmen, etc). If you're looking for something a bit heavier, then Dvor make their dismounted counterparts look a little pale. Since these bad boys are on horses, you have the mobility of a cavalry archer without sacrificing the armor. Tsar's guard are about the equivolent of Gothic knights, only cheaper.

Gunpowder- You aren't shafted here either. With the advent of gunpowder, you can produce Cossack musketeers, the second best gunpowder unit in the game. You also have something those Turks who stole first place don't have, and that's generally western style artillery (basilisk anyone?).

Just about the only thing that isn't great about Russia is that they're orthadox, which means that your priests are about as useful as waterwheels in the sahara.

So my vote goes to russia.

**SMZ** · 12-12-2006, 04:15

I'm liking Portugal myself.

Early position is good with Jinetes and Javilinmen as your main forces, an easily defensible border between you and the French who are usually more concerned with the English and Milan and/or the Germans. Plus, you can make the Pope easily happy because you're able to attack vile heathens instead of your Christian brothers... after you launch a surprise blitz against the Spanish of course. The African provinces make for some slow crossing but after that the treasures of Egypt, etc await. Plus it's easy to get your merchants to some very profitable areas.

In the late game you've got Aventuros, one of the best pike units there is; Portugese Arquebusiers, one of the best gunpowder units there is; Basiliks, one of the best artillery units there is; Conquistadors and Knights of Santiago, some of the best cavarly there is; and Grande Carracks, the best ships there are... not too shabby.

**Darth Nihilus** · 12-12-2006, 04:28

If you mean the most powerful faction in the sense that "if you had a million dollars riding on the line for you to win the game" who would I choose? Thats a very easy answer, England. I don't believe they have the BEST unit roster, but it is certianly very good. I believe they have without a doubt the best and most secure starting spot. And no, they are not my favorite faction at all, so I'm not biased in this.

**Kobal2fr** · 12-12-2006, 04:35

Roster-wise, I'd probably say the French and the Turks... but in actuality, the French have to maintain 4 fronts most of the time (Milan, HRE, Spain, England/Danes), and of course the Turks have to deal with the Mongols and Timurids...

Spain is probably the most powerfull all-around faction. Easy borders to defend, very good units, no crippling weakness, except in the ranged department pre-gunpowder... but then again they have Jinetes so it's a toss-up.

**SMZ** · 12-12-2006, 04:43

portugal is pretty much spanish version 2.0 (better pikes, better guns, better ships)

and word, the english have the most secure starting position... with no threat of attack for your first seven provinces, you can do a lot of things strategically that you can't with the others.... of course there are drawbacks too... for one, it's a really, really, long walk to any crusades

**JoeyFantana** · 12-12-2006, 04:53

Playing Spain, I'd say them as well - Portugal/Spain, Tomata/Tomato, perhaps for the slightly better units Portugal have . . . Looking at who continually keeps wooping the arse of all the other facrtions I must say Denmark! They have some wickedly strong units and that seems rather obvious to me, as in every campaign I've fought they're doing absolutely amazing AND they have a nice starting position - once they've taken Norway, Sweden and Hamburg, there's only one place to maintain troops . . .
Being Danish myself I love all these Danish units, even though some if not even most seem fairly historically inaccurate (I've had extensive Danish history and never heard of Norse War Clerics for example - there may have been one or two, but whole armies!) . . .

**Zenicetus** · 12-12-2006, 04:55

I'd vote for Spain but that may be "current campaign bias" because I'm doing so well with that faction. They have England/Scotland's advantage of geographic protection, but they're right there in the Med to take advantage of sea trade, and they have much easier access to the Holy Lands on crusade. They have a close enemy (Moors) that can be attacked with no consequences to your relation to the Pope, and you can ignore the Mongols and Timurids if you want, just sacking Jerusalem and leaving when convenient.

When it comes to units... they get one of the 3 most powerful navies in the game, they get the incredibly versatile Jinete light cavalry, and a great gunpowder unit in the later game (musketeers). But I think the main advantage is the map position, not the units. Portugal is easy to wrap up early, then you can seal your border against France while mopping up the Moors. From there, you can go anywhere and only deal with two or three fronts at most, instead of being surrounded.

About the only disadvantage I can see to Spain so far, is that they don't have great infantry or archers in the early game, so you have to punt with mercenaries. And conquering the African provinces bogs down the rate of conquest a bit, due to the very long travel times down there. Once Timbuktu is secure though, that's (literally) a gold mine, economically. Spain is the ultimate faction to play if you want a "safe" home base backed up against one corner of the map.

My next campaign will probably be Turks, to see what I can do in a much less secure position.

**Sarmatian** · 12-12-2006, 05:10

So far I've played Byzantium, Scots, Russia and now I'm in the middle of my moors campaign. I'd have to say Russia.

Great heavy cavalry (bit weaker than its western counterpart at charge, but not so much), great missile cavalry, great archers and melee infantry, and of course, the famous cossack musketeers.

They don't have a single weak unit.

Also, their starting position is great. A lot of rebel settlements. Conquer first the western ones to cut of poland and hungary and all your problems are solved.

Two problems that russia may have are mongols, and getting to america (unless you really expand westward). I've reached america from the black sea, and, believe me, it is a pain in the rear.

**Gith** · 12-12-2006, 19:40

On unit roster alone, I'd say Portugal. Good infantry later on (dismounted conquistadores, dismounted portuguese knights, aventuros) with some of the best gunpowder units (musketeers, portueguese arquebusiers) and decent heavy cav with conquistadores and portuguese knights.

Also I must confess, I hated jinettes in MTW. I hated fighting them, and I didn't play Spain because I didn't like their unit roster. That said, in MT2W I have become a Jinettes believer. They have so far murdered about every infantry unit Spain has sent at me. I would say without a doubt one of the all around best units in the game.

For starting position, probably England (very secure).

The German in me wishes I could say the HRE, but alas.

Quick question - why no Swiss Pikeman in the HRE Unit roster any more? I understand they're mercenaries now, but that rubs me the wrong way. Spain/Portugal get recruitable specialized pikemen, but HRE doesn't?

**cassiusdio** · 12-12-2006, 20:01

The HRE have a fairly weak starting position, but i have seen them become a true powerhouse in the hands of the AI. They have access to the same feudal units that others do, and also pavise crossbowmen. and, should they manage to stabilise their position they can be quite a potent economic force.

Their later units are also good, Zwei handers, Gothic knights and Reiters being the most obvious examples, and they have the same later game militia troops as other factions, as well as the ever useful Forlorn hope.

If, when you play, you can survive the first 50 or so turns and take some wealthy territories there is pretty much nothing that can stand in your way, you will have the strategic depth to absorb invasions and muster a force to counter attack, you are well placed to expand in any direction, and with an economy as strong as the HRE's can be, you will have few financial woes.

I would have to say that in terms of starting position though, the English and spanish have the most security, s well as some potent units. with both these factions you should never be fighting on more than 1-2 fronts throughout the game

Regards

**rios** · 12-12-2006, 23:45

I've played russian, spanish and venice so far, and venice is absolutely crazy compared to the other 2.

Full line of MILITIA units including long range missiles, cavs and high valor/combat value infantries; with same castle line of units as most catholic factions; plus everything late from pikes to muskets to cannons...

Not to mention venice could buy Bologna from holyroman in turn 1, which puts the country at modest power from the get-go and enables deplomatic relationships with all factions (including papal) on VH campaign.