How do you Define Heroism?
Hey,
how do you define Heroism. Do you think Someone landing on a grenade to protect his fellow soliders should get a medal of honor? Should someone who gave up his life to protect another family's life be called a hero??
should be intersting debate,your views??
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
Yes and yes.Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/heroism
Heroism-
heroic conduct; courageous action: Pat's returning into the burning building was true heroism.
Hero-
1.a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.
My view of a hero is anyone who does selfless acts that usually require a great deal of danger to help others or the greater good.
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
Not to be a spoilsport, but didn't we have a 4- or 5-page thread about just this subject recently?
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
Yes, and should it end up the same way I'll be as lenient as a brick...again.
Abandon all hope.
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
My hero !
Yes, Iraq is peaceful. Go to sleep now. - Adrian II
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
Well I suppose all agree that if someone does something that is both in accordance to traditional ethical rules, and that has good consequences, he is a hero.
But if someone does something by the rules, following political correctness, but it turns out to have bad consequences - is he a hero? Or if someone does something against the ethical rules, but with good consequences - is he a hero? This makes the hero discussion closely related to the traditional discussion of rule ethics vs consequence ethics. The most interesting questions in that discussion are:
1. if you would kill [insert your most hated dictator here] when he's been in power long enough to prove that he wants some kind of massmurder, you would be guilty of slaying. But it could save millions of people to do it. Would it be correct to do it or not? Most here seem to agree that it would be correct to do it.
2. if killing plenty of persons would result in a better life for the survivors, would it be acceptable to kill those persons? For example "those persons" would typically refer to death penalty victims, or for someone like Lenin/Stalin it could be all anti-communists. Many ideologies which are today deemed as extremely evil have answered yes to this question.
3. is someone who acts against all rules, takes a huge risk, and turns out successful, a hero or a criminal or neutral?
4. is someone who follows the rules but is unlucky and creates horrible consequences a hero, a criminal, or a neutral?
5. should it depend on luck whether you're considered a hero or not, or on what you tried to do?
6. PR or a power position can often make someone take credit for something that was really the work of someone below him in the hierarchy, someone hidden and forgotten.
7. should we really try to be heroes at all? Isn't the desire to become a hero just a desire for power and influence, or sex and admiration from the opposite sex? Shouldn't we instead have it as our aim to achieve moral neutrality, of being neither good nor bad? Because many persons attempting to become heroes end up becoming not heroes but horrible villains.
Under construction...
"In countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Norway, there is no separation of church and state." - HoreTore
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
Since I have no edit button I post my edit here:
insert a 3b too:
3b. someone acts against all rules, but does it in a way where he beforehand made a correct and realistic estimate of the consequences, and doesn't take risks. He turns out successful. Is he a hero or a criminal or a netural?
Under construction...
"In countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Norway, there is no separation of church and state." - HoreTore
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
heroism = stupidity, anyone who risks there own life to save others surely isn't thinking too straight at the time - i honestly don't think i ever would, but i still admire them for it, its odd, because i kind of like and dislike heroism at the same time.....
if a brave action saves lives, then it is probably a heroic action, ie, by putting youself in great danger for the benefit of others, its an act of heroism, i would also argue that a failed attempt of the same action is equally heroic... you dont have to be successful to be a hero, but it helps
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
That feeling is called jealousy.heroism = stupidity, anyone who risks there own life to save others surely isn't thinking too straight at the time - i honestly don't think i ever would, but i still admire them for it, its odd, because i kind of like and dislike heroism at the same time.....
To me a hero is usually someone who is still alive after a great deed, though I am not sure what great deed that could be. If someone dies in an heroic way, he may be called a hero as well, but his heroism is of no more use to anyone. Personally I'd define a hero in the moment I hear about his deed or deeds or what he accomplished, I wouldn't put any definition down. And giving someone the medal of honor after seath is only good for his family, maybe it makes them feel a little bit better about his death, but it won't bring that person back.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
Sadly, i think you're right
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
I don't think it's Stupid to be Heroic... Depending on the Sitituion
Risking your life to save a Kid in a Fire is Heroic
Going into a burning house to save your dog and/or cat is not
jumping on a grenade to save some of your sqaurd mates, is heroic
jumping on one to save prsioners of War is not
get the point??
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
Your point is that heroism exists only if it serves your own people, to me the guy who saves prisoners of war by jumping onto the grenade is more heroic than the one who does it for comrades, the simple fact that he did it for someone who was not his friend deserves more respect because it is out of the ordinary, an act of humanity regardless of stereotypes or personal preferences, in one word, it is selfless.
I think you may think the same if the prisoners of war were Americans and an Iraqi soldier jumped onto the grenade to save them.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
How do you define evil, how would you define anything, My definition could be far more radical than jumping on a grenade to save comrades, it could going into a fight knowing you would die, but in going you know that the time you buy could mean eventual victory (Thermopylae, cough cough sputter sputter), that jumping onto the grenade could be call an honorable act, or even noble, definitely deserving of some sort of medal. Heroism to me would have to be a self sacrifice for the greater good, though it needn't be your life, it would mean that you have put your life at risk with little chance of survival.
Superman would not classify as a hero in my books, his only weakness is Kryptonite, he can defeat anything from any distance with little chance of being harmed (Yes if someone is using Kryptonite against him then he being heroic even if he is being really stupid, he has heat vision for a reason duh).
Batman would be a hero, no super powers, completely mortal and he fights people with guns and other stuff, but it is that he can die from being shot by a stray bullet that makes him a hero to me, he puts his life on the line for a greater good.
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
Someone understands the concept of what makes an act heroic much in line with my own understanding.
O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
What is the difference between the two acts?
Again what is the difference between the two actsjumping on a grenade to save some of your sqaurd mates, is heroic
jumping on one to save prsioners of War is not
Oh I get the point - but I shall not go there for now.get the point??
O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
Why? In both cases lives are being saved, with the other example i can see why rescuing an animal might be less importnat than a child, but all lives are equal, i would even argue that jumping on a grenade to save PoW is more heroic than for squad mates...
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
My definition of Heroism:
Someone who makes an act of courage out of good will, even though they didn't have to.
The soldier DIDN'T have to throw himself on a grenade to protect his fellow soldiers, but he did it out of good will, trying to keep his other teammates alive. Thats heroism to me.
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
I would regard this as more heroic than attempting to save your squad-mates.jumping on one to save prsioners of War is not
Co-Lord of BKS and Beirut's Kingdom of Peace and Love.
"Handsome features, rugged exteriors, intellectual chick magnets, we're pretty much twins."-Beirut
"Rhy, where's your helicopter now? Where's your ******* helicopter now?"-Mephistopheles.
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
Why? In both cases lives are being saved, with the other example i can see why rescuing an animal might be less importnat than a child, but all lives are equal, i would even argue that jumping on a grenade to save PoW is more heroic than for squad mates...
A Animal can always be replace... your 3 year old son can't
"Oh I get the point - but I shall not go there for now."
good,then don't Redleg.
Big, How is jumping on a grenade to save the very same people who trying to kill you heroic? Personally, I rather die from the grenade then save the POW's..
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
What? You'd rather just die needlessly, as opposed to doing it saving the lives of human beings who have surrendered, and are no longer trying to kill you?! Why don't you just shoot them yourself, get it over with.Personally, I rather die from the grenade then save the POW's.
As to why I consider it more heroic, it shows a concern for the whole of humanity, and a recognition of the fact that for the most part these are people just like you, who simply happen to be on the other side.
Co-Lord of BKS and Beirut's Kingdom of Peace and Love.
"Handsome features, rugged exteriors, intellectual chick magnets, we're pretty much twins."-Beirut
"Rhy, where's your helicopter now? Where's your ******* helicopter now?"-Mephistopheles.
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
The animal also dies. Once. Besides, heroism is, by nature, sentimentality and effort, not results -- the less instinctively required, the more effort it takes for one to act for others' sake; the more heroic.A Animal can always be replace... your 3 year old son can't
Then you are not quite as heroic as the person who dares to save Prisoners of War. Every soldier in a war at one point or another probably have come to the realization that there might come a time where they will have to die in order for their comrades to live. Moreover, it is easier to fight for someone whom you know is also fighting with you.
How many fight for those who themselves cannot fight? For those who might fight you back? How many gives that other cheek so many Christians so lightly claim they will?
It takes pure heroism and nobility of spirit to save the enemy. I myself know I don't have that kind of spirit.
Last edited by AntiochusIII; 12-16-2006 at 04:26.
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
All life is worth saving, regardless if its an animal in danger or a human being.A Animal can always be replace... your 3 year old son can't
You might want to look at some definitions. You seem to have an opinion that even goes against the ideas and code of conduct of a soldier, your opinion here goes against the moral code of being a human being. I wonder if you understand that its a military obligation of the soldier to safeguard any prisoners captured on the battlefield, one that if you neglect can lead to charges filled under the UCMJ. If you study history a little more closely you will find that several very brave men protected POWs at the cost of their own lives. Many of these men were not recognized for valor but it does not make their effort any less heroic."Oh I get the point - but I shall not go there for now."
good,then don't Redleg.
And in that your death would be meaningless. In that instance the greater good would be served by protecting the POW's since they are no longer capable of defending themselves on the battlefield.Big, How is jumping on a grenade to save the very same people who trying to kill you heroic? Personally, I rather die from the grenade then save the POW's..
Your digging yourself into a very deep pit - one that you will find difficultly getting out of.
O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
No and no. IMO you shouldn't reward concious stupidity. Which is what throwing yourself on a grenade falls under.
If you havin' skyrim problems I feel bad for you son.. I dodged 99 arrows but my knee took one.
VENI, VIDI, NATES CALCE CONCIDI
I came, I saw, I kicked ass
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
I am not even going to read this. Its pointless, it has been completely debated to no effect. It will lead itself into another unpleasant arguement. Waste of time.
TosaInu shall never be forgotten.
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
Here comes Lars, to save the day!
It looks as if BHC's fairly obvious motivation for starting this thread has played out.
Last edited by Big King Sanctaphrax; 12-16-2006 at 05:18.
Co-Lord of BKS and Beirut's Kingdom of Peace and Love.
"Handsome features, rugged exteriors, intellectual chick magnets, we're pretty much twins."-Beirut
"Rhy, where's your helicopter now? Where's your ******* helicopter now?"-Mephistopheles.
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
Curse you King Warman!!
TosaInu shall never be forgotten.
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
Yes,I do realize that you will be charged under the UCMJ. It's funny how people always question how much I know, but yet say the most ironic things
"What? You'd rather just die needlessly, as opposed to doing it saving the lives of human beings who have surrendered, and are no longer trying to kill you?! Why don't you just shoot them yourself, get it over with."
Personally, I don't care if they trying to kill me or Not Big. They was trying to kill me and my sqaurd, Hell, they may have even kill some of my fellow comrades. And Yet, if a US Marine flips, you think I am going to jump on the grenade to save those Idoitc Iraqi Prisoners? Hell No.
And Lars, would you not give up your own life to protect your fellow comrades in Battle or would you like to see them dead or maim?.Would you not risk your own life to save your mother in a buring house, or would you just leave her to die
So King, you argee with Lars then? Oh wow, that's nice
"I am not even going to read this. Its pointless, it has been completely debated to no effect. It will lead itself into another unpleasant arguement. Waste of time."
Well, why you post here then? Don't post here unless you got something good to say. Common Sense People, Please Use it.
"Curse you King Warman!!"
same to you :)
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
Ah I see. Adieu, then.
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
Erm, no, I was making a joke. I think both you and Lars are way out, although at least he's consistent.So King, you argee with Lars then? Oh wow, that's nice
Why would you think I was agreeing with him? That would completely contradict my earlier posts.
Co-Lord of BKS and Beirut's Kingdom of Peace and Love.
"Handsome features, rugged exteriors, intellectual chick magnets, we're pretty much twins."-Beirut
"Rhy, where's your helicopter now? Where's your ******* helicopter now?"-Mephistopheles.
Re: How do you Define Heroism?
#1 No I wouldn't give up my own life. It's far too important to me. As for my theoritical comrades-in-arms it's their job to mind their own asses, not mine (depending on the position I'm holding in this sernario). As for wanting to see them dead or maimed. Depends, do I like them or not.
#2 Probably not. It would really depend on whether there was a at least a 50/50 chance of all coming out intact.
If you havin' skyrim problems I feel bad for you son.. I dodged 99 arrows but my knee took one.
VENI, VIDI, NATES CALCE CONCIDI
I came, I saw, I kicked ass
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