It's About Time Someone Reigned in Those Geologists!

[KukriKhan]

And that makes 'em good Republican rocks, I guess. No wonder they had Mr. Heston in the film version.

I thought everyone knew the Grand Canyon is Moses' parting of the Red Sea frozen in time. Heck, just look at the colour of the rocks - they are red.

^^ 'at's jus funny, I don' care who y'are!

[Lemur]

This account by a Park Ranger is both funny and sad:

Layers of rock are like chapters in a history book and this canyon, carved so deeply, told an ancient story. Standing at the bottom, calling out over the roar of the falls, I got to teach the exciting conclusion, “The layers of slate and shale beneath our feet tell us that 300 million years ago, this deciduous forest was a tropical jungle.”

“What book d’ya get that out of?” came the reply one day. And thus it began, for this waterfall was not only located in ancient rock, it was also in the heart of the Bible-belt. I had heard there were people who believed the Earth was only 6,000 years old, but I never thought I would actually meet any. That summer, and every other summer I worked teaching science to the public, I met a lot of them. Though most objectors would just walk away from the program, some mothers would cover their children’s ears to protect them from the “blasphemous park ranger.” One man, after I patiently explained how we know the age of rocks, finally just threw up his hands, exclaimed, “The Devil made that rock look that old to turn you away from God,” and led his family back up the trail.

[Strike For The South]

Well If I know one thing its that there is going to be more room in Heaven for me!....Heritics.

[Banquo's Ghost]

This account by a Park Ranger is both funny and sad:

Layers of rock are like chapters in a history book and this canyon, carved so deeply, told an ancient story. Standing at the bottom, calling out over the roar of the falls, I got to teach the exciting conclusion, “The layers of slate and shale beneath our feet tell us that 300 million years ago, this deciduous forest was a tropical jungle.”

“What book d’ya get that out of?” came the reply one day. And thus it began, for this waterfall was not only located in ancient rock, it was also in the heart of the Bible-belt. I had heard there were people who believed the Earth was only 6,000 years old, but I never thought I would actually meet any. That summer, and every other summer I worked teaching science to the public, I met a lot of them. Though most objectors would just walk away from the program, some mothers would cover their children’s ears to protect them from the “blasphemous park ranger.” One man, after I patiently explained how we know the age of rocks, finally just threw up his hands, exclaimed, “The Devil made that rock look that old to turn you away from God,” and led his family back up the trail.

I wonder if air stewards ever get similar grief from Flat Earthers?

Not the walking away part, obviously.

[Gregoshi]

I don't buy the devil explanation at all. I think God was just "distressing" the Earth to make it look older than it is. Kind of like you can do with newer furniture to make it look like an antique.

[Justiciar]

The rocks don't lie.

No, but the Caribou are devious bastards.

[Lemur]

Just a little update: Of twenty-six books submitted to be carried by the gift shops at the Grand Canyon, only one has been approved over the last three years. It's an Intelligent Design book. In further news about how much fun it is to be a geologist in the U.S.:

Grand Canyon National Park is not permitted to give an official estimate of the geologic age of its principal feature, due to pressure from Bush administration appointees. Despite promising a prompt review of its approval for a book claiming the Grand Canyon was created by Noah's flood rather than by geologic forces, more than three years later no review has ever been done and the book remains on sale at the park, according to documents released today by Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER).

“In order to avoid offending religious fundamentalists, our National Park Service is under orders to suspend its belief in geology,” stated PEER Executive Director Jeff Ruch. “It is disconcerting that the official position of a national park as to the geologic age of the Grand Canyon is ‘no comment.’”

[Kralizec]

That's the same link that I posted on page 1

[Gregoshi]

In order not to disturb anyone's beliefs, the age of the wall I'm banging my head against is irrelevant.

[Redleg]

Just a little update: Of twenty-six books submitted to be carried by the gift shops at the Grand Canyon, only one has been approved over the last three years. It's an Intelligent Design book. In further news about how much fun it is to be a geologist in the U.S.:

Grand Canyon National Park is not permitted to give an official estimate of the geologic age of its principal feature, due to pressure from Bush administration appointees. Despite promising a prompt review of its approval for a book claiming the Grand Canyon was created by Noah's flood rather than by geologic forces, more than three years later no review has ever been done and the book remains on sale at the park, according to documents released today by Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER).

“In order to avoid offending religious fundamentalists, our National Park Service is under orders to suspend its belief in geology,” stated PEER Executive Director Jeff Ruch. “It is disconcerting that the official position of a national park as to the geologic age of the Grand Canyon is ‘no comment.’”

Now I have my doubts about the creditablity of the story as written in the quote and the link. The bookstore link at the National Park Service states that the book stores are operated by The bookstores throughout Grand Canyon National Park, are operated by the Grand Canyon Association. GCA is a private, non-profit organization founded in 1932 to support the educational goals of the National Park Service at Grand Canyon.



http://www.nps.gov/grca/supportyourpark/bookstore.htm

You can follow the link to find out what books are available online from the bookstore.

Then from the Question and Answer section from the Grand Canyon Park Web Site

How old is the Canyon?

That's a tricky question. Although rocks exposed in the walls of the canyon are geologically quite old, the Canyon itself is a fairly young feature. The oldest rocks at the canyon bottom are close to 2000 million years old. The Canyon itself - an erosional feature - has formed only in the past five or six million years. Geologically speaking, Grand Canyon is very young. (top of page)


Are the oldest rocks in the world exposed at Grand Canyon?

No. Although the oldest rocks at Grand Canyon (2000 million years old) are fairly old by any standard, the oldest rocks in the world are closer to 4000 million years old. The oldest exposed rocks in North America, which are among the oldest rocks in the world, are in northern Canada. (top of page)

http://www.nps.gov/grca/faqs.htm#old

Maybe I am missing something but the news articles smack more of politics then reality. Now its been over a decade since I was last at the Grand Canyon but they definitely discussed ages of rocks then.

And during my recent trip to Yellowstone (1.5 years ago), geology and the age of geyser formations were activitly discussed by Park Rangers.

[Gregoshi]

Redleg, I certainly hope you are right about the political angle. As much as I hate politics, I'd prefer that to the reality portrayed in the article. I did some searching on my own after your post yesterday and I could find nothing to back up the original story - the search hits I found all drew from the same source. I even spent some time on the US government website searching for anything on the issue.

I was at the Grand Canyon in the summer of 2005 and the shuttle bus guides did talk about the age of things - and it certainly wasn't on a biblical timeline. However, I don't know if the guides were in the employ of the National Park Service or an independent firm.

[Redleg]

Well I found this little bit of a formal press release.

Recent news reports suggesting the Bush administration is trying to muzzle scientists at the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) by placing new controls on approval and release of research plans and products are off base and misinformed about the intent of the changes being formalized at the agency. Speaking as the senior biologist at the USGS, I am deeply concerned that longstanding legitimate scientific peer review processes that have been the basis of scientific practices at the USGS and other scientific agencies and organizations have been mischaracterized as inappropriate political controls on research. Peer review is the bedrock of processes in any credible science organization that ensures scientific conclusions or findings are robust, independent and objective.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The USGS has had such processes in place for many years. As with any science enterprise, policies are periodically reviewed and updated to keep pace with changes in the organization. Our recently revised policy is an effort to do just that and has been developed by scientists and science managers (not political appointees) in an effort to coordinate existing review processes.

Research supervisors in the review chain are simply charged with ensuring all USGS information products have addressed peer comments and are in compliance with USGS procedures with regard to the review and release of scientific information. Furthermore, the notion that senior leadership in an organization should not be alerted to significant findings that will directly impact policy development and decision-making is disturbing. Under current policy this information is transferred to policy makers as it is released to the public.

Characterizing these reviews as an attempt by the Bush administration to control and censor scientific findings is inaccurate, is a disservice to those scientists who developed those processes in the spirit of continually improving our commitment to excellent science and undermines the bedrock of the peer review process as an arbiter of the credibility of individual science products and facilitator of science progress and discussion

http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1588

[KukriKhan]

Googling 'Jim Estes', the guy cited as saying: "...that's a very scary thing. I worry that it borders on censorship...'' shows that the guy has been very active the past 30 years, and apparently unfettered in how he and collegues release their research results to the public - he's a sought-after sound-bite guy by all the mainstream media (especially on matters of marine biology), and he's never had to check with his USGS bosses before.

Now he has to, and doesn't like it, after 30 years of independence. But he's getting a USGS paycheck, so I can see where they're coming from; they don't want to be uninformed and caught flat-footed. They should tread this new "must report to HQ" rule very lightly, and Prof. Estes should cry foul if they try to suppress anything. Shouldn't be a problem, since Fox, CNN, et al have him on speed-dial.

[yesdachi]

This account by a Park Ranger is both funny and sad:

Layers of rock are like chapters in a history book and this canyon, carved so deeply, told an ancient story. Standing at the bottom, calling out over the roar of the falls, I got to teach the exciting conclusion, “The layers of slate and shale beneath our feet tell us that 300 million years ago, this deciduous forest was a tropical jungle.”

“What book d’ya get that out of?” came the reply one day. And thus it began, for this waterfall was not only located in ancient rock, it was also in the heart of the Bible-belt. I had heard there were people who believed the Earth was only 6,000 years old, but I never thought I would actually meet any. That summer, and every other summer I worked teaching science to the public, I met a lot of them. Though most objectors would just walk away from the program, some mothers would cover their children’s ears to protect them from the “blasphemous park ranger.” One man, after I patiently explained how we know the age of rocks, finally just threw up his hands, exclaimed, “The Devil made that rock look that old to turn you away from God,” and led his family back up the trail.

It is disturbing to see how ignorant some people choose to be and that they would teach their children their same ways. I guess it is all a matter of perspective but from mine I see them as fools.

[Xiahou]

Now he has to, and doesn't like it, after 30 years of independence. But he's getting a USGS paycheck, so I can see where they're coming from; they don't want to be uninformed and caught flat-footed.

That was more or less what I was thinking when I heard this. Some of these government researchers don't grasp the concept of being at least somewhat accountable to their employer who's signing their paychecks. Asking them to report anything major to their managers before running to the press doesn't really sound like an unreasonable burden.

Also, good research, Redleg- your Google-fu is strong.

[Fisherking]

George W. is the messiah and Bill Clinton is the antichrist, no wait….the other way….err…was I right the fist time….no! Uh….uh…uh…err but…

Was it something like…kill um all and let god sort it out??? Ya, that's the logic.

Education is not an inoculation for stupidity.
We all know of educated idiots and uneducated sages don't we?

The jerk who counted up the years the Bible mentioned from creation was highly educated for his time. He went through a peer review and published. It doesn't change the fact that he was WRONG about the age of earth, or that there may have been changes in the original manuscript that led to wrong assumptions.

Global warming is a fact, maybe… Why in forecasting the results did they over look the Medieval Warm Period when the Norse settled in Greenland?

Medical research seemingly reverses it's self about every other week.

Too much in the last few decades at least our research has been agenda driven with the conclusion decided before the study begins. Science is as broken as Government.

What a scary thought!!!

Let's face it; We are all going to die…just because those selfish twits with the secret of eternal life took it with them to the grave!

[KukriKhan]

Ahh, another 'spill-over' from the Citadel & Monastery. Hello Fisherking, welcome to the Backroom.

[Idaho]

Here's another person not living in the Reality Based Community:

Car Bosses With Heads in Sand

[BDC]

Here's another person not living in the Reality Based Community:

Car Bosses With Heads in Sand

Yes, I have the suspicion he was drunk or had had a really bad morning just before that interview.

The irony with the whole age of the Earth thing is that oil companies make money by knowing the age and composition of rocks. Then their main customers/supporters deny it.